Hello everyone, welcome back to the Bilna Sandeep show. I am Bilna Sandeep. I’m a chartered surveyor and a marketing expert for the construction sector.
I run a marketing agency specializing in marketing for construction companies, architecture, interiors, properties, developers, and the supply chain for construction. Today on our guest, we have Lynette Sacchetto, who is a serial entrepreneur, who is a advisor for the real estate, who is also an expert in prop tech, and I know she’s excited to launch her latest baby onto the business world, which is Real Trust UAE. I would love to welcome you to the show, Lynette.
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Bilna:
Thank you so much for having me. I’m so happy to be here. I’m so happy that you are here too.
And when I was looking at your LinkedIn profile, oh my god, how do I do your intro? You are an expert on so much levels and you’re part of different platforms in UAE. So maybe you want to introduce yourself in a little bit better way than I did.
Lynette:
Oh, thank you. That’s very kind of you. So yeah, as you said, I’ve been in prop tech here in the UAE for the last 18 years, originally from Chicago.
But Dubai is my home now. And I basically started within the real estate data sector. So basically, I bought, I brought the real estate data to Dubai via the first B2B real estate data platform that I worked on, which was Property Monitor.
And then the second one was Data Finder while I was working for Property Finder. And I’ve had many initiatives with the Dubai Land Department, with Mawasher, for example, which is the first official house price index for the city of Dubai, which we created while I was at Property Finder, as well as the Open Data API, which is now used by those of like Property Finder, Bayut and DXB Interact. In addition, I’ve also have done a lot of advising for the government, both here in the UAE, as well as in Saudi recently.
And I recently started, as you just said, and thank you, RealTrust, which is a digital conveyancing and escrow services company, helping investors, especially foreign investors invest here in Dubai.
Importance of Data in Real Estate
Bilna:
That’s amazing. And I think I would say in one word, you are the go to person for anything I want to know about real estate, along with backed up by data and prop tech backgrounds. So like, for example, when people come to me, I say, in one word, I am a combination of chartered surveyor, a numbers person, plus a marketing expert.
And in your case, it’s more of data, plus prop tech, plus real estate.
Lynette:
Yeah, I’ve been given the title Data Queen of Dubai.
Bilna:
Yes.
Lynette:
That’s what I found you first online.
Bilna:
And I said, wow, this sounds interesting. This is not something a lot of people hear you say, right. And I love the fact that every advice you give is backed up by data and statistics from the industry.
And for me, like, when you come into investing into real estate as a layman, as somebody who’s not part of real estate industry, I would have a lot of questions, right? Like, for example, I could just sip my tea with a friend and sit and say, somebody would say, oh, you know what, Dubai is in a bubble, and you know, things like that. But you are one person who would give that advice based on data.
Lynette:
Yes.
Bilna:
So what is your take on such myths in the industry?
Lynette:
So that’s how it all started for me, actually, when I arrived here in Dubai. When I arrived, there was zero data within the real estate market. This was in 2006.
And at that time, I was looking for property and there was no place to look. Property Finder was a magazine, Bayout did not exist, Dubizil is and still is a horizontal. It really baffled me because coming from the US, we just have an abundance of data, specifically the open data that comes from the land registries.
So I was like, okay, we need to change this. We really need to fix this because without data, you’re just another person with an opinion, which is one of my famous phrases that I always use. And you cannot make, in my perspective, you cannot make any type of valuable decision without data backing it up.
So at that point, when I arrived and I realized there was no data, this is like, okay, we need to bring real estate data. How do we do it? Dubai government, that’s the single source of truth.
That is where the data resides. And this is when I decided to start working with the Dubai Land Department and then started working with Property Monitor as a real estate B2B data platform and just correlating all of the various different datasets from government, from the property portals, from real estate agencies, their MOU data, valuations, evaluation data from the banks, the mortgage data, and then just correlating all of it together to make sense out of it to help the consumers as well as real estate agents. So Property Monitor, Data Finder, they’re both B2B real estate data platforms. They are there to help the real estate agent or the professionals or the consultancies, the banks, whoever’s using the platforms, which then eventually helps the consumers.
And now, as we know, we have other platforms like DXB Interact, which is B2C-based.
Bilna:
B2C. So when it comes to B2B versus B2C, as a buyer, probably, as somebody who wants to invest in the property, what do I go for and look for this data to make such decisions?
Lynette:
So today, as a buyer, you have a few sources. And I have to say, being in this industry for 18 years and bringing the open data, bringing the API for it to be available for use for everyone, I’m actually disappointed on the lack of B2C resources there are for the consumers in the market. Why?
Okay. You have DXB Interact, which is a B2C data platform, but it’s very limited, which obviously it’s designed like that. It doesn’t want to give you all the information.
As a consumer, you can go to Smart Dubai or Dubai Pulse, and you can download the data into an Excel sheet, but then you need to manipulate it and understand how to use it.
Bilna:
Basically, you need to be an expert yourself to understand, right?
Lynette:
It’s not going to work. Be good. Exactly.
Then you can go to the property portals like Property Finder and Bayou to have access to the Open Data API. That was one of the projects that I worked on. And on the listing page, you can see historical transactions and little bit of things like that, but no one’s really mastered it.
And it’s unfortunate. And I’m constantly asked, Lynette, what are you going to do about this? Or how are you going to fix this in the market?
And to be honest, I’ve done that run. I’ve done the whole data B2B, B2C part, and I’m now off to other things. So now I’m just advising various different prop techs.
Bilna:
So it’s much easier, I think, if I hire somebody to advise me who knows the data, who knows to decode the data, right? Yes.
Tips for Property Buyers and Investors
Lynette:
So real estate agents have access to the B2B data platforms. So for example, you have ReadIn, which is one that I use. It’s the oldest one in the market, and they have the most amount of data, and they’re the most comprehensive.
So as a real estate agent or a valuer or a consultant or anyone who’s subscribed to this platform, they can give a lot of really good insight and data to the consumer. But you need to, as a consumer, you need to work with someone who has access to these platforms. Number one, uses the platforms.
That’s the harder part.
Bilna:
That’s number two.
Lynette:
And then can make sense of the data to the consumer so that the consumer understands it and relates to them within their property journey, which is the hard part, especially for real estate agents here in this market.
Bilna:
Okay. And now to see, like, right, there are three, I mean, two types of buyers, people who come in to invest in Dubai. And there’s also people who want to be the residents, right?
Probably the rents are going high, and they want to invest in their own apartments or their own villas or townhouses. In such cases, like, as an expert, what’s your tip? Like maybe like the five most important thing that they need to look at before buying a property as an investor versus as a tenant who’s going to be the end user?
What would be those?
Lynette:
Okay, so there are two very different profiles. And there’s two very different ways of looking at it. But I’ll just give you, I’ll start with the basics.
So number one, know the areas. Do your homework and study the areas within Dubai that you’re looking to invest in, whether you’re an investor, a seasoned investor, or you’re someone who’s been renting for a very long time, and now you want to get on the property ladder. So really understand the various different areas.
And once you found the area that is attractive to you, look for a real estate professional who specializes in that area. This is very, very, very important. So basically, what you want to do is you want to go on to the property portals and see who has a lot of listings.
Unfortunately, we don’t see who sold properties yet on the portals, which needs to be there, guys. Come on, make it happen. Who sold properties in particular areas to see, you know, they’re…
Are they really an expert in that area?
Bilna:
Exactly.
Lynette:
So right now, you’re looking at people who have listings in areas. You can go to the various different brokerages websites who have information and just start to do your homework there. Then I would look for any type of data that I can find on the particular area that I’m interested in, as far as what the prices are trending, how the prices have trended over the last year, based on my budget, what can I afford in a particular area.
And then I will start talking to real estate professionals and just start to get their feedback and see which ones are actually using data, which ones are going to give me a comparative market analysis. The first one that gives me a CMA, as we call them, comparative market analysis report, probably is the one that I’m going to stick to because they’re using the data. So you know that they have a base on whatever they’re claiming.
Exactly. And they’re using some data platform. Even if it’s an internal one to their brokerage, that’s great because the brokers, the brokerages have really good data as well.
And those basically would be my tips. And then of course, as an investor, you want to know how to properly invest here in Dubai. What are my options?
Can I get a mortgage if I’m a non-resident? How do I purchase a property? How do I protect my funds?
So there’s quite a bit of homework that you need to do.
Bilna:
Now, as you mentioned about as an investor coming from outside, right? Probably they are completely new to the market and they have no clue who to trust and how do they invest. And that is where your escrow accounts and your expertise also comes in.
So could you explain a bit about that area as well?
Lynette:
Yes. So that’s how RealTrust actually started. So my network of individuals and investors from around the world always came to me asking, Lynette, you live in Dubai for a long time, you’re in data, you’re in the real estate sector.
How do I invest my money? How do I bring my funds over? Do you have escrow accounts?
Do you use attorneys? Are there notaries? And I’ve always was just sitting there thinking, no, none of this exists.
Because I’ve never been on the transaction side. I’ve never been a broker here. So I was just like, how does everyone do it?
So as we were doing our research and interviews, I started to realize, yeah, there are options that exist and they’re extremely creative and very ambiguous in the sense that if I were an investor, let’s say coming from the States, and I’ve never been to Dubai, I wouldn’t invest based on what I was finding. I wouldn’t feel safe or that my money was protected to transfer it the way individuals were telling me to transfer funds in. So this is when we saw a lot of the gaps and pain points and we decided to start RealTrust and to decided to create a licensed and regulated escrow options for individuals.
And there’s not just one that fits everyone. Every case is unique, but we’ve been able to provide escrow services to foreign investors without even having to facilitate manager’s checks within a transaction. So funds get deposited into the escrow accounts for the buyer and the seller, and then it gets transferred accordingly.
Once all the legal parameters are done.
Bilna:
Exactly.
Lynette:
And then via the escrow instructions, which is how it should be. Yes. And unfortunately here in the UAE, escrow as a license does not exist.
Okay. So it doesn’t exist in DIFC, does not exist in ADGM. Okay.
Bilna:
So how do you manage it?
Lynette:
So I’m currently working, well, it’s using services that are escrow-like services in order to get the escrow services- As your service, right?
Bilna:
As done.
Lynette:
So what I’m doing now, or what I have been working on with the regulators is to say, hey, look, this is a gap.
Bilna:
We need this.
Lynette:
This is not a new concept. It’s been around for hundreds of years around the world. And so I’m working with the various different regulators on bringing a license and bringing proper regulation to set it up properly, which is what I want.
Because at the end of the day, it’s about securing the investor’s funds and making sure that they’re comfortable investing here in the UAE, which has always been my goal, especially with data.
Bilna:
Exactly. Right. So again, maybe let’s go back to 18 years back when you were first coming to Dubai, and I think you were in real estate before in US as well, right?
So how did your first real estate journey begin? Because investing in real estate is not something, it’s not a small amount, right? You are actually, so how did that first spark happen and how did you get into that field?
Lynette:
So the first spark was when I was a child, and my mother owned an apartment building in the south side of Chicago, and I basically ran the building for her. She was a single mother, and English was her second language. So I was dealing with the tenants, collecting the checks, interviewing tenants.
How old were you then? The youngest I remember is about seven. Oh my God.
That’s the youngest age that I remember. And we had about seven or eight units in this building, and I loved it. I absolutely loved it.
So that was where the spark came from. Okay.
First Real Estate Investment
Bilna:
You knew the potential of the industry and how it grows and everything.
Lynette:
That’s why I fell in love with real estate. Yeah. Then also technology was my other love, my other passion in career, more or less around the same age.
So I was very young when I got into technology and I started my first technology consulting firm at 18.
Bilna:
Okay.
Lynette:
And this is before the dot com boom. You started your own firm at 18? Yeah, it was a consulting firm in Chicago, and I was in uni at the time.
Okay. And this was before the dot com boom. So I was making really good money and I was 18 years old.
And don’t ask me where the sense came from, but something in my head told me, okay, you’re accumulating a lot of money into your bank account. You can do one of two things. You can go out on a shopping spree, or you can buy an apartment building.
And I bought an apartment building at 18. Yeah, I’ll never forget it. It was $48,000.
And it was a three story apartment building in the south side of Chicago. And that’s where I put my funds. And then it just, I just became a serial real estate investor after that.
Bilna:
So I mean, like, look at that 18 year old you starting your own company, making it profitable, and then using that income to put it into the real estate. That is so inspiring, because not everybody can really take that kind of distance at an age of 18. So what do you think how it actually reached you into into that point?
Because how was your childhood different from others?
Lynette:
So I was always very independent. I had a very strong influence in my father, because he was very strong in education. So that education start part always stuck into me, but he passed away when I was very young.
Bilna:
Okay.
Lynette:
So I knew I had to go to school. And I knew I had to graduate for some reason. Okay.
And I knew I had to study. However, as I said, my mom was a single mother, she was working three different jobs. And I was very independent.
So at the age of seven, I was taking the city bus home from from school, walking home, I had my own key, I was making my own lunch after school. So I was very independent. Okay.
And I think that, that it kind of all stemmed from there. And my mom was not around very much because she was always working. Okay.
I was taking care of myself. I was the only child. Okay.
And just all came from there, I guess.
Bilna:
I mean, this is giving me goosebumps hearing a story because not everybody can take such decisions at a very young age. And how did you decide to come from US to UAE? How was that journey like?
Lynette:
So when I came here for holiday, it was 2005, I want to say, okay, the Burj Al Arab was just completed. Okay, so 2005, 2006. And I stayed there on holiday.
Okay. And I saw the palm as it was being constructed. And I remember going to the sales offices of the palm and they were selling the world and I was just like, wow, like, where am I?
Bilna:
This is insane. And I just saw the vision of the country at that time.
Lynette:
So the real estate part of me kicked in to say, wow, okay, this is opportunity. And at that time, in the US, I had started a real estate brokerage. Okay.
So I was broker owner of a brokerage in Las Vegas, Nevada. Okay. And I was in the top 2% of sales.
So when I came here, and I saw the opportunity, I’m like, okay, this blows anything that we’re doing in Vegas or in the US out of the water. Let’s see the opportunities that are here. So that’s why I decided to come.
Bilna:
Nice. And what was your first step after coming here? Did you invest in a property here?
Lynette:
No, no, no. So here was it was very different. So first, I had to get acclimated to Dubai.
Bilna:
Okay.
Lynette:
So actually, my first job here, I was working for a real estate Canadian franchise, running the brokerage. So I had about 30 brokers working under me. And this was before RERA was formed.
Okay.
Bilna:
So there was not much regulation?
Lynette:
None. Zero. So it was very much the wild, wild west.
And I came from a very structured market in the US with MLS and Zillow and Trulian. And then I come, I came here and I was like, okay. So it was a lot to learn.
So then after that, I didn’t buy property right away, because at that point, you needed a very large down payment.
Bilna:
Okay.
Lynette:
We were just going through the financial crisis here.
Bilna:
Yes. 2008, the recession.
Lynette:
Exactly. So and at that point, it was kind of like, okay, gonna rent, gonna see what’s gonna happen, and then just save the money for the down payment. Okay.
That was kind of the thought process at that point. And then at the same time, I started a family.
Bilna:
Okay.
Lynette:
So I had two daughters at that point who are now 11 and 14 years old. So a lot was going around at that time. So I wasn’t really so focused on the things that I was normally focused on.
Okay. Especially the family part, because that kind of like takes you…
Bilna:
You were taking a little bit of a backseat at that time.
Lynette:
I took a five year break.
Bilna:
Okay, nice, nice.
Lynette:
Yeah.
Bilna:
Good. Now it’s coming to, since you mentioned about your daughters as well, motherhood versus running business and multiple businesses you’re part of. How is that journey like?
Lynette:
I always used to hear, not so much anymore, but I always used to hear women talk about the balance. Yes. And as a mother, for me, there is no balance.
One day might be totally focused on your children and your family, and the next day could be totally focused on your work and your projects. Okay. So you just need to take it day by day, sometimes even hour by hour when you have children.
As it comes. Exactly. Now, my daughters are older, so they’re 11 and 14.
But I remember when they were young, it really takes a lot out of you as a mother. And trying to manage the children, trying to manage the household, trying to manage the family, you know, hats off to all the women out there who, in addition to doing that, also have careers. Yes.
So I was fortunate, I was able to take a five year break. And then when you take a five year break, especially within the technology sector, that really hurts you.
Bilna:
Because, you know, you miss a day.
PropTech and Career Evolution
Lynette:
A lot of things change, right? Things change. So to get back into the technology sector, PropTech here in Dubai, it took me a bit, you know, it was very wobbly in the very beginning.
But I knew I had my focus, I knew my direction, and I just just went through it. But it’s extremely difficult for women with children.
Bilna:
Yes. And like, taking a break for five years and coming back, you see a lot of the people who were with you five years back, they have gone much ahead in the journey. So did you ever feel that psychologically?
Oh, my God, am I getting back? Or am I back? Or am I behind the journey?
Or did you have that kind of issues? Not here.
Lynette:
Because at that point, Dubai was, well, Dubai still is very transient. But it was very transient. And I was going into the new sector of PropTech, especially focusing on data.
So everyone that I was meeting was new at this point.
Bilna:
Okay. So it was like a career you came back with.
Lynette:
Exactly.
Bilna:
Exactly. So because before it was just real estate, more of brokerage. And then when you’re back, you were into the PropTech side of it.
Exactly. Okay. And I knew, I know, like, when you were starting out, PropTech was not something people, I mean, this word PropTech itself was not there, right?
Lynette:
At that time.
Bilna:
So how was that, like, starting from scratch? It’s like building a new industry itself, right? How is that?
Lynette:
My entire career has been like that. So when I was 18 and started the real estate technology consulting firm, this was before the dot-com boom. So I was working with Microsoft when they first started coming out with their corporate enterprise solutions.
I was working with Netscape, which is now Sun Microsystem, when they were doing the same. So I was always in the very beginning forefront, pioneering the various different technologies that I was working on. So to do that here with data, I knew I was going into that again, meaning to start something from scratch.
Because before I started working on real estate data, I started a PropTech, a portal, a real estate portal called Easy Estate. Okay. What was that about that platform?
It was, so Easy Estate is a real estate property portal. And I wanted to create something very similar to Zillow and Trulia in the US. So if you go on my LinkedIn, I think the video was still there.
So the video was created in 2012.
Bilna:
Okay.
Lynette:
And the features in this video still do not exist in the market today. Oh. Yeah.
Sometimes I look at it and I’m like, why is it not here yet?
Bilna:
Yeah.
Lynette:
So it was a real estate portal. And as everyone knows, whenever you want to start, you know, any kind of PropTech, specifically a real estate portal, it takes millions and millions of dollars. The burn rate is very high.
So this is why I didn’t succeed.
Bilna:
Is that why most people don’t, I mean, they’re scared to invest into starting a PropTech platform. Is that the reason probably? That is one of the reasons.
And that’s also the biggest reasons for failure. Okay. Yeah.
And also now coming to that recession in UAE, right, when you were taking a break. So pre-recession, UAE was again at its peak in terms of real estate. And now, right now also, it’s a real estate boom in the industry.
Do you feel the situation was similar at that time versus now? Do you think that we should expect a recession or do you think it’s not going to happen? Like it’s going to be safe?
Like, what do you think in terms of data and those perspectives?
Lynette:
So obviously I don’t have a crystal ball, but if you just, so you need to look at a lot of different things. You need to look at the macro economic perspective, I think first and foremost, and then tackle it down from there. So when it comes to recession, obviously we follow the U.S. So whatever happens in the U.S. a year later happens to us here. It’s inevitable. Happened with the financial crisis. It happens.
It will happen with whatever comes next. U.S. is not going into a recession. Okay.
They are still struggling with inflation. They’re still struggling with their unemployment rates. It’s very, very low because the jobs, they’re doing very well there, which is why interest rates have not yet been cut.
And I personally believe they will not be cut at all this year. I think they’re just going to stay and everyone’s just going to kind of wait it out. But I don’t foresee a recession coming.
Real Estate Market Trends and Red Flags
Bilna:
So it’s more like people just, I mean, it’s not out of data, right? People just say it happened before it will happen again. It’s more of that sort, right?
Lynette:
No, but honestly for inflation, you really need to look at inflation and the unemployment rate. Those are the two things. So once those two things are consecutive throughout a few quarters, then you go into a recession.
But we’re nowhere near that in the U.S. and we’re pegged to the dollar, which is why we follow that.
Bilna:
Exactly.
Lynette:
So that I don’t see it. Now, when it comes to the property market, I do see a lot of similarities happening now that happened back in 2008. 2008, 2009, especially with the All Plan.
So there’s a lot of supply in the market or coming into the market. There’s a lot of units currently under construction. A lot.
Yes, a lot. Everywhere you turn around, there’s a construction happening. Yes.
So there’s a new launch every 18 hours. And now you’re starting… Every 18 hours, there’s a new launch.
Every 18 hours, a new launch. That’s the average. And that was Q1 data.
So now at the end of this month, we’ll be looking at Q2 data, which I’m like itching to get into.
Bilna:
I cannot wait.
Lynette:
But if you just look at the units under construction today, there’s 286,000.
Bilna:
286,000 units under construction right now.
Lynette:
Under construction today. In Q1, it was 240,000. Just to kind of give you perspective.
However, you’re starting to see signs in the market in the All Plan sector, such as the developers are offering discounts.
Bilna:
Okay. Which was not there before.
Lynette:
We’re starting to see post-handover payment plans come back. Currently in the market, 34% of the projects launched this year have post-handover payment plans. You’re starting to see people sell their units before handover at OP, at open price.
Bilna:
Okay.
Lynette:
So you’re starting to see a few, I don’t want to say red flags, but red flags.
Bilna:
Okay. Okay.
Lynette:
And there’s more to come. And I think, let’s see how the government handles the staggering of the handovers.
Bilna:
Now there’s that up and down happening. Probably it is also because a lot of people say, and you know, it’s not going to happen, then that investor mindset goes down or something like that.
Lynette:
I mean, right now, today, it’s a great, it’s a great time for an investor to invest in All Plan property because number one, he has many options. There’s a lot of good quality out there because developers have now started to focus on quality and finishings, whereas before they did not. Also you have a lot of choices as far as like post-handover payment plans, lower deposits or down payments.
So it’s a really good time. Options are coming up in the market, right?
Bilna:
It’s a really good time.
Lynette:
What’s going to be telling is when these units start to get handed over, specifically in the areas where you’re going to see a large saturation of All Plan like JVC come into the market. So it’s going to be interesting.
Bilna:
Also moving on to the career in real estate, right? Myself coming from construction, so I used to be active in a lot of groups that say it’s women in construction. And it’s not a career line that a lot of women choose because while I used to be in construction, every meeting I attend, most of the time I used to be the only woman in the room.
Have you ever felt that in the prop tech industry and in the real estate as well?
Lynette:
So yes, I did in the States. So in the States, like I said, I started in 1998-ish. And I was always the only woman, always on the team, in the technology team.
And this was for years and years. And then I remember I was working on a project for the city of Chicago and another woman came on to the project. She was so like rough and harsh and she was like so hardcore.
I was like, no, I prefer to deal with all the other men. So yes, I did face that. And every new project I went on, I always had to prove myself.
And I did. Within a week, I was good. And all the boys, we were all, you know, happy just, you know, getting along great.
Bilna:
Did you face a lot of resistance to grab projects or to be part of a new team or anything? Because just because we are a woman, we didn’t have any such issues.
Lynette:
Not to get the project. I always got the project just because of the background that I had. But to get accepted into the team, yes, absolutely.
But this is in the States. But like I said, after a week, I had them all.
Bilna:
Initially, that was a bit of…
Lynette:
The first week was always very hard. It was always, always very hard. But then here, it was very different.
Okay. It was more accepting here. I never had any single issue here.
And I’ve worked with governments. I’ve worked in the private sector, in technology, mostly male dominated. Now there’s a lot more women within the real estate sector.
I don’t know, I just…
Bilna:
I think this is more inclusive, this place, like they are very ready to accept everybody.
Lynette:
Absolutely. Right. Yeah.
Bilna:
Right. Nice, nice. And what is your advice to women who want to come into a prop tech space?
What would be your advice on that?
Lynette:
would be the same. So I wouldn’t have a separate advice for women versus a man.
Bilna:
Yes.
Advice for PropTech Entrepreneurs
Lynette:
What I would say, if you’re coming to PropTech here in the region, focus on the gaps and pain points, because there’s many.
Bilna:
OK, yes.
Lynette:
Find a good gap, find a good pain point, especially from the consumer perspective or even B2B, and you’ll you’ll find a business there. There’s there’s so many I encounter on a daily basis. And I just obviously I don’t have the bandwidth to to do all of them.
But yeah, and this is still very much a virgin market. So and there’s a lot of scope here to develop new products. And there’s many sandboxes.
You have the DFSA, you have the Fintech Hive. You have I mean, there’s so much here to help and support you. So this is a great Dubai is a great place to to come.
So I would say come to Dubai. Yes, come to Dubai. And then just just look at the gaps and pain points like there’s two right now that I’m facing with my business.
OK. I cannot find I cannot find a solution. There’s two.
And it’s just like, guys, come on.
Bilna:
OK, let’s, you know, let’s innovate, let’s let’s create these things.
Lynette:
And I’m not the only one that needs it. OK. One of it is based on regulation.
So you’re mandated to do a certain function and you don’t have that function for an SME here.
Bilna:
So it’s it’s a lot of opportunity and a lot of opportunities that can be built into. Now, as a business owner general, right, what are the biggest challenges you face as a business here, especially in Dubai? Any major ones?
Lynette:
Yes, I would say now I’m I’m very grateful that my business partner is my husband. Oh, nice. And he’s on the operations side, which he loves, which I’m so thankful for because I don’t like it all.
And it’s it’s doing the business licenses and getting the visas and dealing with labor. And because there’s so many hurdles that we have to go through that just don’t make sense, that really need to get fixed in the dress, especially when you’re a mainland and you’re getting a DED license. Just as simple as, you know, some one of our employees, she has a law degree from the U.S. and it wasn’t accepted because it didn’t say university. But it’s a lot. You have to get your bachelor’s in order to get your law degree. So it’s like it’s a soon, but for whatever reason, to get those documents attested.
And it’s taken months for something so small. And just like this, there’s many little small things that just takes months and prolongs the process for the entire visa, getting the company set up. I would say that’s the hardest thing, honestly.
Bilna:
The administration part of it. What about from the client side? What are the toughest clients to deal with?
What kind of clients are tough to handle?
Lynette:
I wouldn’t say tough to handle. I would say what they sometimes ask us very tough questions that we need to find the answers for. And these answers aren’t necessarily easy to find, specifically when it comes to the new corporate tax law.
So we do a lot of client advisory because we deal with a lot of foreign investors. So part of the advisory is on the real estate side, which is where I come in. And then the other part is helping them get set up as a business here.
So either they’re branching out their business here, they’re moving their businesses here in addition to buying property and helping them with all the other stuff. So the corporate, the new corporate tax law is constantly being updated. There’s new mandates coming into play and it’s kind of like it addresses certain parts, but then it leaves a lot of parts open.
So it’s very important to find a really good tax advisor, which we have. Yes. And and being able to advise our clients properly because we are their only source as them coming into a new country to set up.
Most of them are coming from the Europe or from the States, and they’re relying 100 percent on you for your knowledge, for your expertise. And it is my reputation on the line. So that is probably the most stressful, I would say.
Bilna:
Find the right information, make sure it is right before you give the advice.
Lynette:
And as we know here, sometimes you you do something like, for example, with your golden visa. Yes. And you go and apply and they’re like, oh, well, no, now it’s this.
Bilna:
OK.
Lynette:
And it changes overnight. So it’s a little bit challenging. But I would say that that’s the most difficult part.
So it’s not a difficult client. It’s what they’re asking us to do and us making sure that we do it properly.
Bilna:
Finding the right information and getting it done in the right way. OK, nice. Now, you have also run businesses in the US versus Dubai, right?
Which one is better? Like which one is in terms of administration, like you mentioned, the challenges here. How did you find the differences in both the countries?
Lynette:
US is very straightforward.
Bilna:
OK.
Lynette:
Yeah, it’s it’s very straightforward. They have a license for pretty much everything. And it’s very straightforward how you get the license, what you need to do, if you have to take a test or what the criteria is easier there.
Much easier. OK. Much, much easier.
Bilna:
But I do see a trend of a lot of people coming here to Dubai from other countries. So now for those coming here and who want to start a business here, since you have run business in both the countries, what would be your advice to them?
Lynette:
So we also do this advisory for our clients. Free zones are super easy to set up. So setting up a company in a free zone here in Dubai is equivalent to setting up a company in the States.
OK, it’s as easy as that. Very easy, including getting the bank accounts, because getting bank accounts is another difficult process for a company. So we do a lot of client advisory based on what they’re looking to do, especially on property holding companies.
OK. So we advise, you know, to go to the free zone unless there’s a reason why they need a DAD license, like they need to add an activity that can only be done on mainland. That’s part of the advisory services that we offer as well.
Bilna:
OK, nice, nice. Now, also the tax, I know the corporate tax is still ambiguent, but otherwise, like the tax benefits of being in Dubai versus other countries. So is that what actually motivates most of the people to come as investors here?
Lynette:
Yes. So there’s quite a few. So it’s no personal income tax at this point.
Bilna:
Yes.
Lynette:
We do have corporate tax. It is nine percent. So it’s much less than other countries.
They’re still hashing out all of the mandates, basically, on what is involved in corporate tax. So that’s still yet to be seen. But as far as like setting up a company, being able to get a golden visa, if you buy a property or if you fall within the parameter of your talent or your career.
And there’s just many more benefits of coming here. Cost of living is less, for example, than the States and Europe, even some parts of Europe. And it’s pretty easy to get set up and get your business running.
Nice.
Bilna:
And I also feel the convenience of this country is much, much better than a lot of countries. And other question that I wanted to ask you was like maybe a few of the fun questions. Like if you were not in real estate, what other profession would you have chosen?
Lynette:
So I always, so when I, when I went into university, I don’t know. So in the States, unlike Europe, so in Europe, you have to kind of decide what you want to do in high school. So my daughter goes to a British curriculum and she kind of needs to decide more or less her path.
In the U.S. it’s not like that. In the U.S. you go to the university of your choice. And then usually in your third year, you have to like, you have to know what you want to do.
For some reason, when I started university, even though I was always very business minded and computer science minded, which is what I went in with, I always wanted to be a lobbyist. Lobbyist? Lobbyist.
Yeah. And it’s funny now because a lot of people that I know today, they call me the lobbyist here in Dubai when working with various different entities, whether it’s the private sector or the public sector. But I love, I’ve always loved like the political side of like lobbying, which is why I always wanted to be a lobbyist.
So probably, I don’t know, maybe in another life. Sometimes I think if I were to ever go back to the States, which I would not, I would go into politics.
Bilna:
Oh, nice, nice. But maybe that mindset, does it help you in the business side of it? Yeah, absolutely.
Right? Absolutely. Because you have, and also like when I noticed right from the beginning, right from the childhood, you had that business mindset.
Does that help you right now in your sales and the way you sell yourself, your business? Do you want to give some advice on those sides as well?
Lynette:
So how I was, so my childhood has defined me as an individual for my whole entire life. So coming from the very humble beginnings of living, you know, we were poor. My mom had to work three jobs.
My first job was at the age of 13. I was always very scrappy and hustling and trying to figure out how to get from point A to B or it was always, I don’t want to say a struggle, but it was always very colorful.
Bilna:
You want to put it that way. Every day was an adventure.
Lynette:
Exactly. So, and, you know, I also grew up in the South Side of Chicago, which was, you know, not the best area to live in. So kind of maneuvering in and out of drugs, gangs and violence.
And I was thankful. I went to a private school, which was like my safe haven compared to going to a public school in the South Side of Chicago. But just all of these things build my character and motivated me to just push, push, push.
And then my father in the back of my head saying, go to school, go to school, go to school.
Bilna:
You have that motivation inside always.
Lynette:
Yeah. So all of these little things is what’s defined me as an individual of who I am and why I constantly persist and want to do better and elevate and innovate and all those other things.
Bilna:
Now, we discussed about all the success stories. Have you had any failures in business or in life that you might want to share as a lesson that you learned from it?
Lynette:
I would say, oh, I don’t know if this is a good time to say. Oh, dear. OK, you’re going to get me sweating here.
I would say wait for marriage. OK, wait until you’re older and you know who you are as an individual, what you want as an individual to get married. I was very young when I got married the first time.
OK. And now I tell my daughters, please wait until you’re at least 30.
Bilna:
OK, so that you know what you want in life and what you want from your partner.
Lynette:
You know who you are first. It’s very important to know who you are and what you want, what makes you happy before you can even think about what you want in another person and how you’re going to make that other person happy. I’m remarried and I remarried later on in my life in my 40s.
And that was the right time.
Bilna:
You knew the right choice.
Lynette:
So I would have to honestly and I know this is personal, but that would be the biggest advice that I had.
Bilna:
The biggest lesson in your life. Absolutely. OK.
And that’s what you give as an advice to your own daughters as well. Absolutely. Know yourself before you get married.
Lynette:
Yes. And don’t do it in your 20s.
Bilna:
Do it like in your 30s. Yes, because that is only by that time, you know, you’re still a baby. Even I’ve got married at a very small age, so I can relate to that.
And now maybe maybe something funny or memorable from your career. You want to say either in the US or here, something you would never forget, a memorable moment you want to share.
Lynette:
I would say one of the most memorable moments I had in my career here was signing the partnership agreements with Dubai Land Department.
Bilna:
Nice.
Lynette:
That was so there was two that we signed. One was for Mawasher when I was a property finder and then the other one was for the Open Data API. Also, when I was a property finder, those were the two most memorable and like my milestones in my career here.
Bilna:
That’s nice. And when you started off your business here, right, because you are coming to a company in a completely new sector as well as PropTech, so how did you find your first clients and how did you go about the business development side of it?
Leveraging Networks and Social Media
Lynette:
In the very beginning, yes, I went to the land department. OK, I just walked in, sat there, went one, two, three, four, four, three, two, one, up and down the floors, went into the offices. Hi, I’m Lynette, I’m from the States.
How are you? Nice to meet you. What do you do here?
That kind of thing. I literally, I literally walked into offices of the individuals. I would look at their title, what they did.
Obviously, I’m looking for data, I’m looking for research, I’m looking for, you know, those kind of departments. And everyone was so nice, so welcoming, so pleasant. And then eventually they got sick of seeing me all the time.
They’re like, what do you want? How can we help you? And that’s literally how it started.
Bilna:
OK, I mean, this is one of the best advices because a lot of people, they’re stuck and struggling, like, how do we get new clients? And I think it’s more about you just going out there and asking. You never know when it gets answered.
Right.
Lynette:
So that was 2000 and that was, let’s see, I came in 2006, like 2010-ish. OK. Today, how I get clients, honestly, is organically on my social media and my network.
So I’ve always been big on my personal network. I have a really big network in the US. I have a, I’m a Harvard alumni, so the Harvard network is very, very strong and we’re constantly connecting with each other.
So it’s between my networks and social media and organically as well.
Bilna:
I mean, two major assets you have is the network that you have and the social media presence that you have.
Lynette:
Yes. And your sphere of influence. So sphere of influence is something that I learned when I was doing real estate in the States.
So you have your first tier, your second tier, your third and so forth, so on. So your first tier, your immediate people that you, like family and friends, then you have their family and friends and then it just goes on and on. So it’s just tapping into that.
And then after you’ve done it for so many years, it just becomes natural. And I’m always talking to people as well. Like I’m one of those people that when you get into the elevator, I start, hi, how are you?
Bilna:
What’s going on?
Lynette:
And I can’t tell you my apartment building. I’m not a real estate agent. OK.
Everyone comes to me. I’m looking to buy. I’m looking to sell.
OK. So I’m constantly referring leads to brokers just for my building because for some reason they associate me with real estate and the data and they want to obviously they’re asking me for information. So I also love to just talk to people.
Bilna:
Oh, nice. I think so. I am taking away these three points.
One is your network. Second part is your social media presence. Third is your sphere of influence.
And fourth is just talk to people. Nice, nice. Thank you so much for being on our show, Lynette.
And I’m sure a lot of our listeners can also relate to everything that she has said today, because there’s something or the other for you to take away from every experience that Ms. Lynette shared today. Do you have one final advice for my audience? Most of them are entrepreneurs and they are a lot of them are want to invest here also in Dubai.
So what would be your advice?
Lynette:
So I would have two. So one is just a general advice just from my years of business. Always follow your gut.
And as you mature, your gut matures. So the more your gut talks to you, the more you need to listen to it. I’m a firm believer of that.
When it comes to investors looking to invest in Dubai, make sure to partner with the right advisor and make sure that that advisor is surrounded and reads all the data and understands all of the data within the industry that helps you as the investor.
Bilna:
Nice. Thank you so much, Lynette, to be on the show. And thanks to all our audience for watching the show.
Please do subscribe to this channel and make sure if you have any friends or relatives or family or network who wants to invest in Dubai, share this episode with them because they are going to get a lot of value from this. Thank you and see you in the next episode.
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