Hello and welcome back to another episode of The Bilna Sandeep Show. I am Bilna Sandeep, the founder of two marketing agencies, Growwie and Built Market Lab. I’m also the founder of Homepreneurs Club, which is a powerful networking organisation for women entrepreneurs. Today on the show, I have not one but two guests who are very special to our marketing agency. My team has specifically told me that I have to mention the word bubbly because they say that they are the most amazing and bubbly clients that we have. So welcome to the show, the #DSouzaSisters, Elrona and Desma D’Souza from S&K Consulting, who will share tips on HR excellence and HR in UAE.
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Desma: Thank you so much. We’re so delighted to be on your show and congratulations on all the businesses that you are heading. That’s very impressive.
Bilna: Thank you.
Elrona: It’s like we’re admirers of Bilna and Bilna’s achievements and companies. It’s always good to see that.
Bilna: Oh my God. Let’s come back to S&K.
Desma: Mutual appreciation society.
Bilna: True, true, true, true. So, let’s, before I go in-depth, let me hear about both of you, what S&K is all about, and the story behind S&K.
Evolution of S&K: From 1.0 to 2.0
Desma: Sure. So, we always say there is an S&K 1.0 version and a 2.0 version. So, I will let Elrona talk about the 1.0 version and then I will very conveniently come in at the 2.0 version.
Elrona: So, the SNK 1.0 is the, what we call also, the origin story. And it starts off with, when I was in the corporate life that I call it, when I was in a full-time employment in a multinational. And oftentimes, I would go networking in the HR business and I would find that the experiences that fellow HR professionals had and even in social circles was very different to the one I enjoyed. And I felt like there was a gap. So, from there onwards, it started brewing that something needs to be done, something needs to be addressed. And so very quickly, I kind of reached the 10-year mark with my company and it felt like it was time. So that’s when I moved on from the corporate world merrily into being an independent consultant. And those days, and I’m talking about almost 10 years ago. So those days there wasn’t the concept of freelancer, there wasn’t a concept of flexible work gig, none of those things seem to have hit the UAE.
Bilna: The flexible work just started when the COVID happened.
Elrona: Exactly. We got more familiar with that. So, I set up S & K Consulting to be like the vehicle for me to do independent HR consulting to small businesses because that’s where I felt the gap was and the need was in terms of bringing better HR and employment experiences to that. And that’s where I also kind of set up the vision of shaping and changing the HR landscape of the UAE and the region. So, I started doing that, did that for a few years and over time gradually I felt like I can’t single-handedly change the landscape of HR, although I want to, but I need help and I need somebody to have somebody who’s on my side, who thinks like me or thinks just as well about the HR and the employment experience. And then I suddenly realized my sister, who has been also in HR, surprise, surprise, kind of is the one that I leaned on. And suddenly we started talking and S&K became more than just me and it became about two of us. And that’s where I will hand the mic back to Desma to give us the S&K 2.0 version.
Desma: So, the SNK 2.0 version started actually a little bit with a personal journey. So, in 2019, I left the corporate world at the beginning in about Jan- Feb and with no plan. With basically –
Bilna: It was like a sabbatical.
Desma: It wasn’t intended to be a sabbatical, but it ended up being a sabbatical. So, I was basically unemployed for the entire year and I, towards December 2019, I lived off my savings. And I thought, maybe I’ll get another job. And I was interviewing, but I was not excited about anything. But I invested that entire year in a lot of personal development. I read a lot, I consumed as much learning content that I possibly could, whether it was books that I would listen to or videos that I would watch, meditation, yoga.
Bilna: Probably like trying to find yourself?
Desma: A bit of a self-discovery journey. It wasn’t actually, at the time, it wasn’t called self-discovery. Neither did I intend for it to be like, no, I’m going to start on a self -discovery journey. I’d dabbled into things like this from a few years ago, but I just had more time to do it. And I say that at the end of 2019, I say that Elrona felt sorry for me, she won’t agree. And she gave me a piece of work and she said, “Oh, I have this piece of work and would you like to..”, it was to write an HR policy or an employee handbook, I can’t remember,.” would you like to do it?” And I’ll pay you for it. And I was like, huh, okay, sure. I’ll happily do it. So, I did it. And we went through it and turned out I did a pretty good job.
Bilna: It was approved.
Desma: Yeah, she approved it. But what was also interesting is her approach towards how she went about writing a policy. I just started typing away, but she had a very systematic approach, which she had obviously developed over her years as a freelancer. Also in 2019, I had another idea of a startup that was an app and I won’t go into too much detail, but when I had the idea, I thought like, how hard could it be? You create an app and boom; people will be on it and you’re gonna make money. And so, at that time I leaned on Silba and I was like, why don’t you do this with me? So, we hired a company to do an app and then three months into that, we realized we had no idea what we were doing. So, we put that on hold and then we went to entrepreneurship school to understand how to create a startup. Again, this was not with any particular vision in mind, but what we kind of discussed was, because we thought that this was gonna blow up, as soon as we launched it, we’re gonna get users.
Bilna: Everyone’s gonna just download the app.
Elrona: Exactly. We thought we had so many people that would just be waiting.
Desma: And as you have it with startups, every time you share your idea, everybody says that’s a great idea. We know it’s a great idea, right? But it’s the execution. Anyways, so at that point, we had also worked together. So, we had some experience, which is very different than being sisters. So again, cut to the end of 2019, I did this piece of work and then I went back to her to say, maybe you should try doing this, this way, or I read this book and try promoting S&K Consulting this way. And then she’s like, maybe you should just join me. And at that time, I actually had a job in hand that was paying far more than my previous job, who was also like a bigger position. But going back to being an entrepreneur excited me at the time more than 100%. So that’s when I declined that role and then we joined hands together. And that was the story of S&K 2.0, which was in Jan, Feb, 2020, literally two months or a month before COVID hit.
Elrona: Yeah. And I would like to just add that, I think now that I’m reflecting, it’s like I manifested this to happen, like for Desma to be on that journey and have that realization that actually entrepreneurship is the route for me. And I’m more than happy to join forces. So, it’s like, I have a sister who works with me and we have offices next to each other. And it’s like we’ve had rooms next to each other when growing up. Yeah. So, it’s pretty much the same.
Desma: Also, what’s interesting is my entire life. So my dad has been a businessman in Abu Dhabi our entire life. So over 40 years, he ran a successful pest control company. And I’ve seen how hard he worked. So, I grew up thinking, I will never be an entrepreneur. This is really hard. You can’t take time off. I just wanna be in a job so I can go on holiday every year. And I would always say that to him. I would always say like, “I’m never gonna be an entrepreneur, and I’m never gonna marry someone who’s an entrepreneur. This is too hard”.
Bilna: Keep them away.
Desma: Yeah, exactly. Keep them away. So, this was the last thing on my mind. But then obviously now that we’ve done it for a few years, I couldn’t have been in…
Bilna: Any better position.
Desma: 100%
Elrona: Yeah, that’s why I say manifest because she came to that realization on her own. So nothing like it.
Sibling Bond in Business Decisions
Bilna: That’s nice. So, it’s like, when you say working together as sisters, there’s good and the bad as well. Because when you bring family into business, how does that work? I’m sure you’re both two different individuals. You will have your own thought processes, your own opinions, though you both come from the HR background, but you’ll still have different sorts of experiences. So how do you come to a decision when there’s a difference in opinion happening?
Desma: So, one of the things we did very early on is we did a little typical corporate thing, which is a strategy session with the two of us in a coffee shop on what we want to do with this business. And we had very honest discussions on, like, why are we doing this? How do we intend to make a difference? What is the difference that we’re trying to make? Who are we trying to serve? And what actually happens in the event?
Bilna: Like proper vision for the company.
Desma: Exactly. What happens in the event that we disagree about something? So, we had very open, transparent conversations about this. We also acknowledge and recognize that we are very different individuals from a personality perspective. We look different from each other, for starters. But we also think very differently. However, what we do have in common is our values. And we, again, this is something that we spoke about. And we, you know, when we say values, we use it in our decision-making. It’s not just something that is on our website or is on the wall. We actually use it in our decision-making. So, when we get to a position where there is a, it’s not so much a disagreement, it’s a different opinion. But we agree that we will always focus on not who is right, but what is right. What is right? What is right for the business? And we also have different perspectives on it. And when we have those different perspectives, we have different discussions. And when you know that you don’t come from a place of ego and you come from a place of what is right for the business.
Bilna: Then it is a whole different game.
Desma: It is a whole different game. Do we get it right all the time? Probably not. But, you know, neither of us would ever say, you know, like, see, “I told you so”. Because, you know, that doesn’t serve anyone. We just focus on, okay, well, where do we go from here?
Bilna: And whatever decision you take, you own it together.
Desma: A hundred percent.
Elrona: See, that session was four years ago, but it is fresh in our minds as if it was like yesterday. And that’s because it was a genuinely open conversation that kind of, you know, steered us till now. And it’s about having that shared vision and absolutely putting that ego aside. Because I don’t think ego has a place in a business where two sisters are working or in any business for that matter. Because the business doesn’t need ego. It needs your vision. It needs your guidance. It needs you to steer it. And it does falter if you bring your ego into it. So that was it. And it was also about what do we want to put out there, you know, in terms of what do we want the clients to feel? What is the experience? What is the shared vision? And we’ve constantly worked towards that since we started S&K 2.0.
Desma: And you know what’s interesting is that the vision that we started with remains, but the how of where, how we’ve gotten there looks nothing like what we put down first on paper.
Bilna: It has completely changed from what it was.
Desma: It’s unrecognizable. You know, again, we thought like, we’re going to offer these services. Everyone’s going to come knocking on our doors. And this is what we’re going to do. And we’re going to create this big team. And we are going to, you know, these are all of the services. And on paper, it was a perfect solution. And it was a perfect business plan.
Bilna: Yes, it all looks perfect as a business plan.
Elrona: Sitting in a coffee shop, sipping a cappuccino, looking at our spreadsheets and our PowerPoints and we’re like, who’s not going to want to work with us? That was as conceptual as it could be. Until we started having real conversations, then real outcomes started to happen. And we also started learning.
Desma: And of course, COVID was like just around the corner, right?
Bilna: Yeah, that’s when you started the 2.0 version.
Desma and Elrona: Exactly.
Surviving and Thriving in COVID
Bilna: Okay. So how did you guys survive during the COVID time? How was that like?
Elrona: Yeah. It’s a great question actually. I think we survived because of our clients. The true answer is we had a few clients that stuck with us. They had businesses to run. They were on the side of essential industry. So, they continued operation and they continued, you know, taking our support. So that’s what we became… We stayed very lean as well. We were very cost conscious. And honestly, it was not the right environment to go pushing and selling. So, we changed the narrative in terms of marketing and started adding, giving value. And that also kind of brought us new clients, even during that time, without actually having to say we’re selling, we’re selling, we’re selling. So, you know, the vote of confidence from the clients that we onboarded, plus the kind of messaging we sent outside, you know, kept us going.
Bilna: That’s amazing.
Desma: Yeah, exactly. We were actually very fortunate with the clients that we had back then. And we’re extremely fortunate with the clients we continue to have today. We always say we could be friends with them. That’s how great they are. Another thing that kept us going was our mindset.
Bilna: Okay, so you were always positive about what’s happening in business.
Desma: We were always positive, but I think we were always also hopeful. And we knew that we needed to make the best of whatever was presented to us. So, like our initial, when we started, I call it the story of two desks and a laptop. That was our investment.
Elrona: Literally two desks. And I used her old laptop for my IT, which I still continue to use today. And this is how we started.
Bilna; You have always kept it lean.
Elrona: That’s how we started. We knew that it was not about getting a fancy office, not that you could during COVID as well. It was not about looking glamorous or looking like we are…
Bilna: Like a huge company.
Elrona: Correct. And this also kind of resonated with the clients that we got. You know, they were speaking to other like-minded entrepreneurs. They were speaking to like-minded business owners. And we spoke business. We understood business.
Are you a small business owner thinking about scaling up? Check out this blog!
S&K’s Authentic Approach Shaped by Corporate Experience
Bilna: Did your corporate environment actually help your previous experience as a corporate in working with other corporate clients now?
Desma: Oh, yes. I mean, the kind of… The benefits of being in a corporate environment is something that is brought into even the business that we worked in. But we built on that in terms of making it more authentic, making it us as opposed to what we inherited.
Bilna: Adding the touch of yourself, right? Your values to it.
Desma: Exactly. Because our corporate world is, or our corporate experience is what is part of us. But it’s not what S&K is about. S&K is about our contribution to it. So, it’s built on that foundation. But when we approach clients, we come with that strong business acumen, that structure and that understanding of how efficiency can be built.
Bilna: You know what the problems they are facing in there is because you have worked in that kind of environment previously.
Elrona: I think being in the corporate world is fantastic, right? It’s a great learning experience. And it teaches you two things. One is what to do. Like the structured approach to doing something. And two, what not to do.
Bilna: I think that’s the most important.
Elrona: And so, with our diverse industries that we’ve been part of, and the businesses or companies that we’ve worked with are like really great iconic companies that were doing amazing work, large organizations. So, we got to see a lot, our first-hand experience on what to do and what not to do, what was working, what was not working. Was, it was right there. All we had to do was draw from it. And what was working, obviously we wanted to bring that. And then what was not working goes without saying, we chose not to do it. And we also brought that into when we started hiring our first team member, right? So, we’re an HR consultancy and you think an HR consultancy can hire their staff. And of course, we could, but we did something different. We didn’t just say like, here’s a job post, please apply. We asked at the time, this was a few years ago and this was not normal. We asked interested candidates to send us a video of introducing themselves and telling us what their unique HR perspective was. Nobody was doing that kind of thing. And so that kind of set us apart straight away. And when we eventually met these candidates who worked with us, the ones that made the effort to do this were the ones that we eventually worked with.
Bilna: Because you knew that they’re genuinely interested in that role
Elrona: Exactly
Employer Branding: Key to Successful Talent Attraction
Bilna: Now, since you mentioned this, how do you attract the right kind of talents to your team? What strategy, how do you do that?
Elrona: Also, another great question.
Desma: The talent attraction is I think that sort of secret sauce that nobody’s able to figure out what the secret sauce is.
Bilna: You and I myself always keep trying to understand and optimize the process as much as possible.
Desma: That’s because there’s not one solution that fits everything, right? The talent attraction is unique to the talent, unique to the industry, is unique to the business. So, it has to be something that works out there. There are certain processes, there are certain structures, systems, technology, all of that is there. But the essence of it is like, how do you bring good talent that works with you? So, it’s the fit that needs to be looked at.
Bilna: It’s more of like the frequency of both the teams, right? Your company and the person who is getting hired. Both need to align in values and then the working culture and everything.
Elrona: So, I would say there’s two elements to it, right? There’s talent attraction and then the tools to actually get candidates. And they’re two separate things. So, talent attraction is simply, why does someone want to work for your business? So, we speak about employer branding. And you don’t have to be a large organization to invest in employer branding. You can do that as a small business. So again, when we started, a lot of the information we put out there, even our website spoke to our desire to be authentic, spoke about our values, spoke about things that you don’t hear corporates talk about. So, the candidates that eventually applied to us resonated with that. The tool might be a platform, technology, apply on our website, LinkedIn. That’s just the tool. It’s the why that should someone work with you. That is the most important part. And I think this part gets missed because everybody thinks like, I’ll just put out a job post and I’ll get a hundred applications.
Bilna: A hundred plus resumes are coming.
Elrona: Yeah, but you have to tell talent, why do you wanna come work for us? Because think talent always has options because they’re talented. So why you?
Bilna: Why should they choose to work with you?
Elrona: Exactly, and that’s why employers need to invest in branding. And it can be very simple things that they can do to invest in this employer branding, but it’s something that gets often missed. But I think that’s a useful thing to think about.
Supporting SMEs: Approach and Services
Bilna: Now that you also mentioned SMEs, I know you guys have a special interest towards SMEs, working with SMEs. So, can you tell me why did you choose SMEs? And again, what are the services that you offer for SMEs?
Elrona: Yeah, very quick. So, this goes back to the origin story, right? That’s where, in the beginning, I could not put a finger on what that gap was. I would talk to companies, I would understand, or talk to my friends who were working in these smaller businesses, not multinational, but prominent, but lacked the kind of good HR practices or what good HR looks like. So it was part of discovering. And then I realized that 90 % of Dubai’s economy, and in fact, any country’s economy, is built on small businesses. It’s built on these startups. So, the bulk of the people that are employed are in these small businesses, but often are not the most attractive type of clients to have or to call. But that’s the ones that we went after, because we thought if we wanna bring change, if we wanna bring our vision to life, changing the landscape is like targeting that group.
Bilna; Because that’s a huge landscape here.
Elrona It’s a huge landscape. It’s the largest employer in any economy. So that’s why we are very passionate about small businesses. And the other thing is, small businesses, you see impact right to the very end. It’s not just the business that benefits. You see the employee and the families that benefit. So, you can see the value that you add all the way to the end. So, I guess the satisfaction that comes out of it is real and it’s potent, so you feel it. But small, and the entrepreneurs, when we give them solutions that give them better, freeze up their time to grow their business, freeze up their mind to think more clearly, and help their employees. Because all business owners, all businesses, as we say, is a people business. Yes. Right? And when they see positive change in their business, they see positive change in their employees. That’s how the positive change comes through. So, this is why whenever we, when we had to talk about it, is small businesses was almost like a no brainer eventually. But that’s how we landed there.
Desma: Yeah. And I also think, when we work with small businesses, we quite often work directly with the business owner. And these business owners, they care, they genuinely care about their business and they also genuinely care about their people. So, they care about people.
Bilna: They’re closely connected to the whole team.
Desma: Exactly. This is their baby essentially, right? So, they want to do, obviously they have a business to make money, but they also recognize that they are impacting the lives of their employees and their families and the community. So, they’re very interested. It’s not just a policy that we create that is on a shelf somewhere.
Bilna : They actually truly implement it very well.
Desma: And so, this is the joy of working with these small businesses. And like Elrona mentioned, we see impact. By impact, even before it actually is implemented, the relief on the business owners is…
Bilna: …huge
Desma: Yeah, just that to be like, “I’ve been struggling with this for so long. I could have done this much earlier. And this would have eased my pain”. Or when they talk to us about a challenge and in their mind, it is just occupying so much head space. And when they speak to us and we break it down, we literally simplify it for them and say, these are your three options. We would recommend going with option one.
Bilna: Then it’s just clear, clarity they get.
Desma: It’s like going to the doctor, suffering with a toothache for the longest time. And then the doctor does one thing and you’re like, I could have done this a week ago instead of suffering for like a week. So, the joy of having that interaction with them, the joy of them being able to reach out to us, to trust us. And then they actually see results in their business. And then they come back to us to say, we had no idea that this would help us achieve this. And then they refer us to other clients because now they felt it on the ground. So, this is why we love working with small businesses.
Elrona: It’s a real love. It’s a real romance in some ways with small businesses because it’s from the heart. Everything that we do from an HR perspective or the application of the HR profession comes from the heart because it’s the impact that we want to see at the very end of what happens. And the excitement begins right from the first consultation because you can see the sense of relief.
Bilna: The glow in their eyes.
Elrona: Being transpiring, as you can see it, even before we’ve signed a deal or anything, just the first consultation to say, “You’re not alone. This is a problem that can be solved”, because it feels like this is going to be the biggest hurdle of the business. And then when we simplify it, we break it down, we give them the assurance that it can be solved. They just, we can see the body language change. They tend to relax back and that itself is satisfying.
Bilna: That’s nice.
Desma: And then also to add to that is because we’re not just HR consultants offering a service to a business, we’re business owners that provide HR services.
Bilna: So, you understand that pain point of the owner.
Desma: So, we understand business. So often what starts off as a requirement for HR very quickly then turns into a business conversation. It turns into a like, “What license did you get? Can you, we’re having a challenge in finance or can you refer us to someone? What do we do about this? “And it just becomes, we are now peers trying to run our businesses. And it’s a very different conversation that it turns from.
Bilna: From a business owner to another business owner, right?
Desma: From one business owner to another business owner. We get it. We don’t just say it, we do get it.
Common HR Mistakes Founders Make: Insights from S&K’s Experience
Bilna: True that, true that. And since you have also worked with the founders, a lot of founders closely, what’s one or a few common mistakes that you see them making in terms of their HR in a company? What are the common mistakes?
Elrona: Something to reflect on. I think founders don’t, it’s not a mistake. It’s sometimes an oversight or sometimes, something that they, a problem that they, it’s a future problem. It’s not a current problem, it’s a future problem. So, it’s deferred or something. But I think when you are setting up a team, you need to look at that holistically. Like what do I need to help my team give the best outcome and how do I make them bring the best to work? So how do you assure that? So, giving them the right framework, because you have to remember as a founder, as an entrepreneur, an employee looks at you very differently to how you look at them. You look at them as these, I’m employing them to deliver a piece of work or so on, but they look at you as you’re the one that’s the employer. So, you have obligations, there are expectations, and you need to deliver on that to move the business forward. So that recognition that you’re an entrepreneur, you’re a founder, but you’re also an employer of people who have families, who have expectations, that mindset has to come in. That’s one thing. It’s not, you’re not selling a product.
Your business is a people’s business. That recognition needs to happen. And then how do I run a people business? You might be selling widgets, you might be selling technology, you might be selling services, but who’s doing that?
Bilna: Who’s running the show?
Desma: Who’s running the show, exactly. Exactly. So, I see it like this, right? So, these are not mistakes. These are, I guess, learnings that you have as a founder, as an entrepreneur. Mostly when someone starts a business, they’re usually an expert in something. They’re an expert in whatever service they’re starting with. Whether it’s trading, whether it’s production, whether it’s whatever it is, they’re an expert. What they’re not an expert at is, is building a team around it. And so, like Elrona said, recognizing that I’m not an expert in this, therefore I should go to an expert for help, is one thing. That’s a whole mindset thing, a learning, an area for learning.
Number two is, as an employer, there’s simple compliance requirements in the UAE.
Bilna: By the law, right?
Desma: By the UAE labor law. So, at the minimum, you have to be compliant. And if you’re not compliant, or if you say like, “Oh, I’ll just do this in-house”, even if one employee challenges something and brings you to court.
Bilna: That’s when the real game begins.
Desma: Yes, you could be liable for up to three months of pay. Invest that in setting it up from the beginning. It’s just as simple as this. The other thing is, if you ask any employer or any entrepreneur, any founder, any CEO, what is your greatest asset in your business? Nobody will tell you, it’s this amazing IT system that we recently bought. Or it’s this beautiful furniture that we have in our office. Or if it’s the state-of-the-art boardroom that we have, everyone will tell you, it’s my people. Right? So, if your greatest asset is your people, would it not then make sense to invest in your greatest asset.
Building a Team from Scratch: Strategic Steps and Structure
Bilna: True, true. And if I am growing a team from scratch, like what should I do first? Should I just randomly look at hiring this position? Or should I have a team structure in mind? What’s the whole process? If I were to start a business from scratch, how should that team building process be like?
Desma: So, if you were to start a business from scratch, there’s a, you have to, again, look at a holistic picture. Team building is one element of it, right? What I would start off with is what your, how are you going to deliver service from point A to point B? From the time someone asks you to say, “Hey, Bilna, I’m interested in your marketing services”. Till the time that you start delivering the service, what does that look like? Map that out, right? That’s a starting point. Can you do all the steps in between, or do you need support at each stage? That’s just a very simple, basic…
Bilna: Way of finding out for each service, what’s the kind of people you need.
Desma: Correct. Whether you’re making food, are you going to advertise that you’re cooking, this food is available? Then you answer the call, are you going to prepare the food? Are you going to deliver the food? Are you going to ask for their feedback? That’s five different things.
Are you going to do all of that? And then take the money and then manage the money. So even if you just take something as simple as that, there’s like four or five different…
Bilna: Different departments involved now.
Desma: Exactly. Yes. So that’s a very simplified approach to doing something. Of course, it evolves and it builds. And so, what we do with them is we kind of walk them through this thought process, because they come with an idea to say, “Oh, this is how it’s all set up”. And a lot of times, of course, they’ve done it as best as they possibly could, maybe from their previous experience. But if they want to continue to remain that size, that’s fine. But most business owners are ambitious. They’re setting up businesses for a reason. They want to at some point scale and grow. And so that’s when we come in to give them that initial intelligence of creating a team around their business. Maybe they don’t have to hire everyone on day one. They can hire in three months. They can hire in six months. They can hire next year. But they recognize that, at some point, I need to hire someone.
Bilna: Setting that structure in place right from the beginning on the whole vision of how the team should grow.
Desma: Exactly. You know, there’s a really, really amazing book called “E-Myth”. I don’t know if you’ve ever read it. It’s by Michael Gerber. And he talks about in the book why most small businesses remain small businesses: because they don’t systematize things. And when you systematize, then you introduce this process and you introduce a structure around it.
Navigating UAE’s HR Landscape: Key Considerations for Business Owners
Bilna: Yes, yes, that’s nice. Now, when we come to the UAE landscape, right? The HR landscapes. What are the common things that I should know as a business owner? Like there are different ways you can get fines, or there are different areas which might be blind spot to us. So what are the things that we need to be careful of in the HR terms?
Elrona: So, UAE is a little unique compared to other locations. Why? I mean, most of us are aware. It’s more the population demographics are very different to start with, right? So, you have your expat population and you have your national population. And the private sector is mostly expat and not so much national. But all in all, couple of things that are very unique. One is cultural diversity is unique. The kind of mix that you have in terms of the people that you can lean on. There’s a lot of that happens. UAE is also very exciting in terms of, it’s an amalgamation of cultures that you bring in. And then UAE’s culture comes out in there. The other thing is UAE labor law. The UAE labor law is a unified law across the country. But it’s also complimented by immigration. So, when people come in, they often get confused between the two, the labor law and the immigration system. So, it’s good to have that understanding as to what impacts your business, how it impacts your business. These are like the bare bones in terms of what impacts your business. So that’s what’s unique to UAE because not everywhere you have to understand immigration and labor. So oftentimes you only have to understand the labor law.
Bilna: But here you have -There are two sectors that you need to be aware of.
Elrona: Exactly.
Desma: And also – There’s like two elements to it, right?
Elrona: Yeah. And they have to kind of fit well to have the proper structure. And then obviously the landscape of the UAE in terms of the kind of businesses that you have is very different as well. It’s more services, it’s more different landscapes. So, UAE, I think what I like about the UAE small businesses, it’s often something that you only see multinationals being invited or all of that. But there’s a huge UAE small business community that is so thriving and growing. And you should be part of it. I think that’s a community that definitely needs to be given more attention; I think.
Desma: Yeah. And to go back to your question, having legal documents in place, having a contract that is compliant with the UAE labor law. A lot of people think that if I have an immigration contract that’s done, right? But you’re a unique company. There are additional things that you need to think about. Again, you have to have a long-term view of these things. It’s not for the now, it’s for the future. Assuming you want to remain in business for the future. Anybody who starts a business wants to remain in business for the future. So, things like that. Understanding your obligations as an employer. So, we, for instance, we do contract templates.
We don’t offer that on a contract template. And just when we do this, the consultation process ends up also being an education process for the founder, right? Because something as simple as leave. The UAE labor law says you must give ‘x’ number of days of leave. But maybe the business has an operation that needs to work, wants to comply with it, but wants to implement it in a way that they’re compliant, but also, they’re serving their business. They might not be able to figure this out on their own.
Bilna: So that’s how you come in, right? How to figure out the right way.
Desma: So, we interpret it for them to say, for your business, regardless of your industry, how do we make sure that you are compliant at a minimum? That’s one thing, right? The second thing is a lot of founders think that when I hire someone, they’re delighted to get a job and then day one happens and come in and start working, right? You only get one chance to make a great first impression. You have to make that great first impression when your employee starts. That onboarding experience is not reserved for the corporates only. It’s something that you can incorporate in your small business. You know, like think about it as in, you know, an analogy that I use is, imagine you go to a hotel, right? And they know that you’ve booked in for a particular day and you arrive and you’re like, here I am excited to enjoy the next two days of my staycation. And the reception is like, “Oh, that’s right, Bilna, you were supposed to come here. And okay, that’s great. Let me get your room ready”. And then they, you know, go with you to your room and you can see that the room has not been cleaned from the, like there’s things all over the place and they’re busy kind of organizing it and say like, “oh, you can put your case here”. How would that make you feel as a guest? Surely, you’re not gonna really enjoy that experience, right? It’s very similar for your employee to know that the host, in this case is an employer, has taken time to prepare you, just gives you such a different experience. And something as simple as that can just make a lasting impact.
Bilna: That first day at work, right? When they come to you, and there is always a thought process that, okay, it’s for the corporates, you know, we are a very small business. But it’s actually something which we all can implement, the systems and everything.
Desma: Exactly.
Freebie – Onboarding Checklist for HR Excellence
Elrona: This is, you know, when you talk about the onboarding, there’s a lot of what we have done to help small businesses is we’ve offered a lot of free resources on our website that they are free to download. And one of the things that we did was these onboarding checklists because it always sounds like it’s not for us. It’s reserved for corporates or large organizations. But it is, you know, it makes a big difference because it adds to your ability to welcome this person, but also to retain this person. And make sure that they feel that sense of belonging and that sense of connectedness from day one, because that is one of the reasons why people stay along with small business because they get that connection.
Bilna: How do I find this freebie? Where do I find it? So, I can add it in the description for our listeners to also download the same.
Elrona: Okay, it’s on our website. So, if you go down there, you can fill up a form and go ahead and download.
Bilna: So, we’ll add the link to it in the show notes so that anybody listening, they can actually download it. Link.
Elrona: Yeah, they’re more than welcome to.
Desma: There’s actually like a lot of resources you can download this example, like remote working policy, just creating job descriptions and there’s a guide on how to create it. So there’s quite a good list of resources to use.
HR in a Box
Bilna: Amazing. So, we will be adding that in the show notes as well. And since we mentioned about the resources, would you like to talk about HR in a box? What’s that?
Elrona: Oh, that’s our favorite box to open.
Bilna: Time to open the box. Time to unbox it.
Desma: You know, like we spoke earlier about how we’re so client-centric, right? And we work with small businesses. And so, a lot of times initially, I think in our initial days, one of our most popular asks was, I have a team of five, six, less than 10 and I plan to grow to, you know, 15, 20, 50. And I don’t have the basics in place. I don’t have a contract; I don’t have policies. I don’t have a handbook. You know, can you create all of this for me? And the answer was, yes, we can. And so, these were all bespoke documents. And so, every time we said, you know, this is how much it would be and this is how much it would cost, we actually lost quite a few clients back then because they were like, I can’t afford this. I’m a small business. And so, we had to kind of take a step back ourselves to say, okay, if we’re servicing a community and we know we’re giving them value, but they still can’t afford it, how can we make something for them that meets that requirement and addresses the price point as well? That’s how we created HR in a Box.
So, HR in a Box is your HR framework set-up. It gives you your offer letter, contract template, all the policies and procedures that you would need, or an employee handbook, and every single combination, permutation of a form, a letter or a HR template. So, whether somebody wants to apply for a bank loan, somebody wants to travel, you want to promote someone, you don’t know what questions to ask in an interview, you are onboarding a new employee and you don’t know what information to collect from them, you are trying to figure out how to calculate payroll. Everything is in this box, and we deliver this within four to six weeks.
And we do this through three things. So, we do initial consultations with you to understand your business, and obviously each business is unique. We also understand the nuances of your business. We do a design element. So, the document is not just a word heavy document, so we personalize and brand it for your brand. So, it just makes the employee experience more positive. And then last but not the least, we do a training session. We do a management training session. So, whoever’s going to implement this on the ground, we empower them with all of the tools and all of the information of how best to use the contents of the box for the foreseeable future of the business. So, it’s a one -time investment, but it covers you for literally the foreseeable future. We’ve had clients that have bought the box to customize their ERP systems. Because when you get an ERP system, you have to go through line by line to say, like, what do I do about this? What’s the lead? What’s the process? So, when they do this, they literally give it to their tech to say, “Here, now customize our system”
Elrona: And the HR in a Box is built on two things. One is it’s going to be a very compliant HR framework. So you would be, from the get -go, the framework will ensure you’re compliant as per UA labor law or free zone or any of them. Second, it’s also built on HR best practice. So, it’s not just the bare bones of the law, but we want, like we said, we want to shape the HR landscape. We want to build great workplaces. So, we have added HR best practice into that. So, you don’t have to pay a lot to get great HR framework into your organization. So, these are the two strengths of HR in a Box in terms of what we do. And the consultation process is where we see the ease of…
Desma: The relief.
Elrona: The relief that’s coming in even before the documents are shared. So, yeah, as we go through the consultation, as we navigate them and guide them through that process, it’s the best journey I have experienced. I love those consultations.
Bilna: That’s nice.
Desma: Yeah, you know, it’s also nice to see that the businesses that we work with, the clients that we work with, are so proud of getting these contents off the box. They’re like, “Wow, this looks so nice. And this is so clear. And, you know, I understood when you explained, but now having gone through the process, I can’t imagine, like, this is what it is…”
Bilna: The whole structure you need for your HR. The whole company, right. All the forms, everything is included.
Desma: Everything is there. And so, you know, that feedback that we get from them just makes it so worth it.
The HR in a Box Journey
Elrona: It’s like a Walt Disney. It’s like a Disneyland sort of journey in HR. You know, like, think about it. You’re on this little seat and you’re locked in and you start your journey and you start entering and you get a little intro like, welcome to this and all of that stuff. And you’re like, OK, what’s this going to be all about? It’s a ride. How great can it be? It’s, da -da-da. And as they go in, they’re like, wow, wow. And you come out on the other side and you’re blown away. Your hair is… You know, it’s literally that. That’s the kind of feeling that the clients have shared with us.
Desma: And, you know, like, look,
Every employee deserves a great place to work. And every employer deserves to get the help to be able to create that, because this is not a skill set that it comes to everyone naturally.
Bilna: You need to hire a professional to understand what is required. Sometimes as a business owner, we don’t even know what we need.
Desma: Exactly. A lot of times you don’t know what you don’t know. And, you know, between us, we have over 40 years of experience. So, we…
Bilna: You know those blind spots, right?
Desma: Exactly. And so, we really want to empower these, you know, the right clients to empower their people and make their place a great place to work.
Starting Up an Architecture Consultancy Business – Insider Tips Ft. Rashiq
How to Treat People
Bilna: And since you are very passionate about people, what my team always tells us is that we enjoy the meetings with both of you. You know, like whenever we have a review meeting with you, they say… That’s why we say that you are the bubbliest clients. So now as employers yourself, how do you deal with your people? You know, is that the way… Are you always like that? Are you always very bubbly? And is that the way you, do it? How it is?
Desma: The answer is yes. Yeah. You know, this old saying, right? Treat people like how you want to be treated. True, true. And this is what we employ in our team, in our… with our clients, but also with people working with us, because we know where their clients are.
Elrona: You know, we’re HR and we’re entrepreneurs. And we also know that we are also employers. And the approach we have as employers is different to the one, we have as HR. We do benefit from the fact that we come from an HR background. But as an employer, it’s a different conversation. And being in the business that we have, all our team members are very well experienced. And they have more than 20 50 experiences. And they’re accomplished individuals themselves. So, I always feel like we’re working with peers. So, it’s always, you know, a lot of them actually… What’s in my mind, they’re articulating to the clients. So, it’s a different conversation that we have.
Bilna: We always have that fun moment inside us.
Elrona: Yeah, so we can be lighthearted. We can, you know, and it’s about delivering work. It’s not about anything else. And it’s a conversational way of kind of dealing with people. And we love working with your team as well, Bilna. We enjoy it there.
Bilna: They love working with you guys the most, I think.
Elrona: Because we see how much they have our best interest at heart. And we see the initiative and the creativity that they bring to every meeting. And it’s not something that we’re just reviewing, something that’s done. But it’s brainstorming of sorts. And that’s what I like
Bilna: It’s a brainstorming session with you. And we love the inputs we always get from you. Because not every client really understands what they need. But when we get clients who know exactly what they need, it’s much easier for us to work with you also.
Desma; I’d say, you know, our relationship with our team or our clients or anyone we deal with, it’s not instructional. It’s collaborative.
Bilna: That’s the best approach.
Desma: And this is what makes the difference, right? Because we’re not telling them what to do. We’re working with them to do something. That’s the best for them also. As an agency, you want to deliver good work.
What is a Living Laboratory?
Bilna: Because for us, the client’s results is what actually drives us. And now there is one question which my team has told me to ask you after looking through your website. What is a living laboratory? What is that living laboratory process?
Desma: Living laboratory is a term that we thought we were so clever when we came up with it. So, a living laboratory is, you know, we’ve obviously had between the two of us, I was saying, over 40 years of experience. And we’ve worked with companies that have either started a new project or, you know, started a new company. And so, we have been in the thick of things as these massive companies started to emerge. And so, we’ve not been in positions where we were only said, this is your job description and this is what you do. We were thrown in the middle of like, can you do a bit of this? And can you do a bit of that? Can you do a bit of that? So, you know, like if you think of a laboratory, you try these different things and then you come up with a result. And so, we’ve been in that position where we’ve tried all of these different things. We’ve experienced all of these different ways of handling situations, people, businesses. And now we have an outcome. And that continues to evolve with every new client we work with, every new business that we work with that continues to evolve.
Bilna: That is a learning experience for all of us.
Elrona: Exactly. And to add to Desma’s, HR is a very living thing. It’s not a policy that’s on the shelf. It’s a very living document. It has to change with the landscape. It has to be dynamic. It has to respond to the business. And it has to be, you know, as the business grows. So, it’s a very living document that gets applied in very different scenarios. And we have, you know, used all our experience to kind of tell clients that even three years, five years down the line, when you will come and encounter a situation, this policy has to make sense, has to give you the answers and the guidance you’re looking for. So that’s, you know, the long term of running a business.
HR and Artificial Intelligence (AI)
Bilna: Yeah. Now, before I move on to the final question, every industry is now hit by AI. What is your take on it? Has HR also started implementing AI in any form or how is that?
Desma: Yeah. I think this is kind of like the chatter of the hour, right? Everybody’s talking about AI. People are talking about AI going to replace people. It is at, I think, very early stages. Obviously, it has been in development for years now. But it’s hit mainstream, I think, fairly recently. And so, everyone’s, I think…
Elrona: in a global living laboratory process. They’re all dabbing into AI and trying to like, not less let Hollywood or any movies influence our thinking. You know, like, oh, what is that?
Desma: Yeah. So, you know, like in our world, right? People, people’s problems or challenges with people are unique because they’re people. And everyone’s different. And you can standardize to an extent, but ultimately, humans work with humans. You can streamline processes with AI, maybe.
Bilna: Maybe it could be used as a tool for improving the process.
Desma: Exactly. Like, you know, for instance, we like, if I go back to what I initially said about employer branding and the tool for attraction, right? Your employer brand, you can use AI to generate what the employer brand could be. But you still have to represent your employer brand. You can’t get AI, like you’re not authentic unless that’s your brand. Then that’s fine. So, there is a human element involved in everything. So, I think once we get out of this laboratory phase, we’ll find our footing in terms of, you know, where that lands us and it’ll continue to evolve.
Elrona: I think AI is going to impact us as much as email has impacted us, you know? And a lot of people thought, oh my God, if email comes, then, you know, lots of things will not happen.
Bilna: But it actually just made things easier.
Elrona: Yeah. Or even more recently, like all the virtual meetings, travel is going to come to a standstill. Has it really come to a standstill? If you see the recent news, the traffic is huge, you know?
Bilna: But still people are meeting each other.
Elrona: Because we are humans. We need that connection
Bilna: We crave for that people connection.
Elrona: Yeah, people need that. So, it’s not something that’s going to like, it is going to influence our life. It is going to influence the way we work. But I don’t think it’s going to replace us. And I think it’s good that you recognize how you can harness AI for your life, for your business and how you can, you know, bring it in.
Bilna: Bring a positive impact.
Elrona:
Every new technology has something to add to it. And, you know, being resistant or fearful of it is not going to help the business going forward.
So, think about it that way. It’s like another email, another virtual meeting. It’s not going to like suddenly take over, but it is going to help, definitely.
Desma: It’s interesting that you said that just today. Iwas talking to our office manager and I’m like, thank God for these virtual meetings. Otherwise, I can’t imagine how much I would be driving around Dubai going from meeting to meeting to meeting. And when we started our business, because we started during in 2020, the virtual meetings were like the norm. And as a business just starting up, that actually worked in our favor. So yeah, you know, these things are they come in to enhance your life. Find how it can enhance your life.
Best HR Tip
Bilna: It’s all about how you use it for the right way. And now coming to the last final question for today. What is your one piece of advice especially to a smaller business, SMEs, in terms of HR when they’re starting their business?
Desma: Invest in it.
Bilna: Perfect.
Desma: So, invest not it’s not about investing in HR excellence. Invest in your business. You know, invest in your greatest asset, which is your people. Invest in creating a business that can stand the test of time in the long term.
Bilna: Amazing. What do you have something to add to it?
Elrona: I think I go back to what I said earlier, like
Recognize that you are the mindset has to be that you are an employer of people and that you have obligations and you need to, make that recognize that that’s part and parcel of being an entrepreneur. I think if you invest in your people and you recognize these two things will take it, you know, a long way forward.
Bilna: They’ll run the show for you.
Elrona: Exactly
Bilna: Thank you so much for this amazing session. And thanks to all of our listeners for today. Do not forget to subscribe. And also, we are leaving the links to all their S&K and the freebies, which they mentioned as well. Please download them and it’s definitely going to help your business. Thank you so much.
Desma: Thank you so much Bilna. This was such a great session. I think we could have chatted for another hour. If we could. But thank you so much. Awesome experience.
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