Hello, everyone. Welcome back to The Bilna Sandeep Show. A lot of times, I’m always getting asked the question, “How do you manage two different sectors of your business? Homepreneurs Club and your marketing agencies, BML and Growwie.” So, today, I want to break that secret to you. I am introducing you to two powerful women who are the secret behind running both my businesses. So, Anjum and Saniya, welcome to the show. Today we will discuss women’s empowerment, working moms and what it means to be a working woman in today’s world.
Anjum: Thank you.
Bilna: Anjum is the Community Manager for the Homepreneurs Club and Saniya is the marketing head for my marketing agencies. Welcome to the show, both of you.
Saniya: Thank you so much.
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Part 1
Part 2
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Bilna: How are you guys doing? How are you today?
Saniya: Great, great. We’re doing great.
Anjum: We’re pretty nervous but excited.
Bilna: That was an honest reply. So, yes, so let’s get kickstarted, right? So, how do you find being a working mom, Anjum? How is it?
Super Moms Chat Away! Women’s Empowerment!
Anjum: It’s difficult, but yeah,
Bilna: What inspired you to become a working mom? Like, a lot of moms make a choice after they have kids, right? Some of them quit their jobs, some of them want to go full-time, some of them want to do different types of work. How, what…
Anjum: Okay, I just didn’t want to be ONLY A MOM. You know?
Bilna: I know, it’s kind of like a lot of people, probably like when we go to parties, birthday parties, about kids and every time.
Anjum: Oh, ‘just a mom’.
Bilna: Yeah, ‘just a mom’. So that is what actually made you go out of it.
Anjum: They don’t know the weightage of just.
Bilna: How it actually gets here, right? When they say the words ‘just a mom’.
Anjum: Yes, yes.
Bilna: And in fact, that’s the toughest part of our life, I believe, right?
Saniya: I think that’s a full-time job. Like, you have to work at night also, morning also.
Anjum: It’s a full-time 9 to 9. 9 to 9. 12 to 12. 12 to 12, job.
Bilna: So I was speaking with somebody, okay? So it’s in fact one of our clients for our marketing agency. So he was telling me, your team was telling me, we don’t work on weekends. So I thought, okay, maybe it’s a negative comment. Then he was like, no, no, no, I’m not telling it in a negative way. You know what? We never stop working. Especially you guys as a mom. You’re like, weekends are more work than actually going to the office, right? So I think that’s what we all like come from that, you know?
And that is what actually inspired us for the Homepreneurs Club as well. We have all the women entrepreneurs that come together. How’s your experience? You have also been visiting our club meetings. How was your experience?
Anjum: You want to go?
Saniya: Yeah. I think one beautiful thing about Homepreneurs Club that I would like to bring it here is that I have seen, of course, the businesswomen that are doing business, and they want to connect, they want to network in the club, they are a part of a club. But I could see that there are so many people, so many women, who just have a desire to start a business. And they feel so comfortable still to come to the club and network with people. They don’t know what they want to do, but they just want to do something. And still they’re comfortable coming there, talking about themselves, telling that, yes, I want to be there because I have been to a lot of clubs. And even after having a business, you’re not comfortable telling about it
But here women who just have a desire to do something, they still come to our club. They’re so comfortable talking about it. And I think that’s one of the beautiful things that I have seen in Homepreneurs Club.
Bilna: Nice, nice. I think you enjoy the most about it.
Anjum: Yeah, I am in and out of it every day.
Bilna: And you are the one who actually keeps the club together.
Anjum: Yeah, day and night, I’m saying. It’s there. We, I should be talking as a person who represents the club.
Bilna: When you actually, before joining the club, what you thought about it, versus after being the backbone of our club, what’s the difference you feel like?
Here is an informative and exciting interview of Aswathy, a member of the Homepreneurs Club
Discovering Desires and Overcoming Fears
Anjum: OK, so I used to look at the club, you know, before joining as a community manager. Probably, it was something like, I want to be a member of the club. So I really didn’t know how these kinds of settings work and things like that. But when I became a part of it, when I represented Homepreneurs Club, then it was a very different picture that I got. We, right now, I think we have about 70 plus women entrepreneurs. They are very different. We have new entrepreneurs. We have seasoned entrepreneurs. We have ladies who are, you know, they’re working very rigorously on their yet-to-launch ideas. So you get a lot of learning. You get a lot of inspiration and motivation.
Bilna: Very true, very true. For me also, every club member I meet, I learn something new from them, right? And it’s not just about their business angles also. Sometimes the way they take their business to the next level and when they tell us the stories of how they started off, you know, and their backgrounds. And I think because it’s a membership, we keep meeting each other a lot of times and that bond is just growing.
Saniya: It’s more of friends coming together and talking to each other.
Anjum: I always use this classic line saying, we’re all on our own different paths, walking along with somebody who is on their own different path.
Bilna: Yes, yes, it’s a very beautiful thing. And one thing that holds us all together is that word you said, the desire.
Saniya: The desire, yeah.
Bilna: The desire to be something, you know, right? The desire to be something.
It can be in our personal life or it can be in our business or whatever, but desire to be successful and that success might mean something different to every one of us. Yesterday in our meetup, there were a few of them who were coming for the first time for a networking meet, right? And I remember they were kind of trembling when they were going to just speak in front of the audience. But I can see the glow in their eyes after they did that because they conquered that. That was something they felt like, OK, I can. I can never do it, but they did it. And now I’m sure the next meetups they come, they are going to be more confident.
Anjum: I think that’s the beauty when you start doing things consistently. Even for me, even today when I stand in front of a crowd, I’m really nervous. I’m very nervous when I stand.
Saniya: I don’t think so.
Anjum: I really get very nervous.
Saniya: I get all the energy from Anjum when I’m in the club.
Anjum: But when you keep doing it, then you build that confidence in you to face the crowd, to talk. You are trembling. That is there. That’s the fact.
Bilna: I still tremble. People don’t believe me when I say that. A lot of times people say you are doing a podcast, you are on the mic, you’re taking the mic on the stage. But believe me, I still get those shivers and am just good at hiding them. For me, it’s a lot of effort going to a networking event, speaking. I need to go into my shell after that for maybe one day I have to complete. So yesterday, I was telling Sania, I’m not coming to the office. I need my Zen moments.
Anjum: That’s the fear of the unknown. I always tell myself. Before coming to an event, our club event also, I stand in front of the mirror. I always try to rehearse like,
Hello, welcome. But when you go there and stand, then you’re like, okay, I’m blank. Who do I tell? So that fear of unknown you overcome only when you jump and do it.
Bilna: A lot of times women also come to us saying that I have a business idea, but I don’t know where to start. I tell them you just join the club because you get a lot of energy and a lot of inspiration seeing other women.
And when you relate to their stories, when you talk to them, you understand they’re just normal people, just like you. It’s not like they are something huge or everybody is going through that struggle every day of our lives. It’s just more like we don’t know what others are going through. We feel okay, they have it all sorted, but I believe it’s not sorted for anyone. Nice, nice. So now, what about life?
Like, what do you think? How important is it to have a spouse that supports your dreams?
Supportive Spouses and Breaking Stereotypes
Anjum: Okay. That’s a good question. That’s a very good question.
Saniya: They will be very happy speaking about them. That doesn’t happen usually.
Anjum: I think it’s very important. I know I can talk about only my husband. He’s pretty busy all the time and everything. But when I really need that support, like today,
Bilna: He’s taken a leave, right?
Anjum: He’s off. He’s at home. So he’s going to pick up the kids. But he will not do that every day. So he knows that when I need it, that fallback, yes, he’s there.
Bilna: He has the shoulder to rely back on, right? What about you, Saniya?
Saniya: Okay. I think for me, he is very supportive, very supportive. Like, I don’t even have to communicate to him that, you know, there’s something coming. And he’s so happy with all the achievements. And like, even if I had to come here, he knows what’s required, what’s not required. He has to take care of the child. And I think it’s the society is changing. People are changing. Men are changing. So I know like a lot of women say that, you know, men are like this, men are like that. And they are being, you know, I think pushed down. But in terms of my husband, he’s an amazing person. He’s into logistics, so he’s super busy. But still, he takes care that how he’s going to take time for family, for me to achieve my dreams. So I think it’s really important to have a very supportive spouse if you really want to do what you want to do in your life.
Anjum: But you know what, despite the fact that we’ve been evolving in the past decades, there is always this thinking in society that the primary role of a woman is to be a mother, a good mother.
Bilna: Yes, and the pressure, the guilt.
Saniya: And I think no matter how much you achieve, you’re just being judged. Like for a very funny story, I have a friends group and we are all doing great in our lives. And I messaged them because I just switched my job. So I just wanted to tell them. So I said, there’s good news. And they said, oh, you’re having another child. That’s good news.
Bilna: The tagline of good news. The moment we say good news, are you pregnant?
Saniya: Are you pregnant? I was like, OK, but can’t anything good happen to me other than being a mother only? So they’re like, no, not that. It’s something different. So I think it’s in their brain that motherhood comes first. And I think it’s different for men. If men say the same statement, they, oh, OK, you got a new job or you got something new. But if a woman says that, it again comes to motherhood. And working women, I think we get judged a lot of times.
But I think I’m very happy that I’m working because my son is looking after me, because he knows that my mom is doing more than she should do. And he’s learning more. And maybe if we sit at home with each other, it will be a fight between us. But because there is a distance, he’s learning new things and I am doing what I love. So, yeah,
Bilna: You all have your own spaces.
Saniya: Exactly. And I think he’s learning more than I could have taught him when, you know, he was there at home with me.
So, yeah, I think all motherhood is priceless. Every mother, whatever they are doing for their child, a stay-at-home mother, a working mother, whatever it is, I think they’re doing their best. So we are nobody to judge anybody. So, yeah, that’s something I believe in. If somebody comes to me like Anjum, I think you are managing work also and you’re managing your child also. That’s you. You know what’s good for your child. And, you know, so similarly is different for different women.
Anjum: See, when you realize that you cannot do it all. Yeah, exactly. That’s when you.
Bilna: I think that realization is the most important part.
Saying ‘No’ and Overcoming the Guilt
Anjum: You have to prioritise. You have to, like, I learned to say no.
Bilna: That’s another huge important part.
Anjum: I literally learned to say no because, you know, that expectation that, oh, you will do it, you will do it.
Bilna: Then you learn to say yes. Yes, it’s not what I am. Yes. And learning to say no is, I think, one of the most important parts of our life. Because the moment you learn to say no, especially to your close and loved ones, that’s the toughest part. I mean, if somebody who’s not very close to you, if you’re OK to lose them, it’s fine. But there are people in our lives who are very near. So I had a very experience recently when I was on vacation. One of my, someone who was really, really close to me, somebody I can never afford to lose, told me, you are the cruelest mom in this world.
Anjum: Oh, and for what?
Bilna: Because of my business. But they’re only seeing a part of me. They’re not living with me. But I didn’t fight. I didn’t try to resist. I just accepted. I told them, OK, it’s fine. I accept that. This is what is right for me at the current situation of my life.
Right. And even now, though I tell people about mom guilt, you know, you have to do what you want to do. The sound of those words, it actually rings in my mind. That guilt comes. Because if it’s somebody just my neighbor or someone who says that, it won’t kill you. Right. I mean, you can just get rid of it. OK, it’s nobody. But if it is someone who really means close to you and they make a comment like that, it’s very hard to overcome that. But then I have also made a pact with myself.
I know what I’m doing. Like there are days which I’m not able to make myself available for my kids. Like maybe it’s due to my business or maybe whatever it is. Right. Maybe I might have to go out. Maybe I might have to come late one day. But the next day I try to make up for that over the next weekend. But I think it all comes from inside. Like it’s very hard to accept some facts. But like you said, we have to accept the fact that we cannot have it all.
And then every time we compromise on one side of life. So people ask me what it’s like being the child of a working mom. Do you think it was an advantage to you or is it good to be a working mom’s child? So I always tell it from two perspectives. I myself, my mom, was working throughout every time in my life I’ve seen her working. And while I was growing up, I felt lonely because my mom was working and I was the only child.
I didn’t have anybody else to play. So when we were in, I grew up in Bahrain from most of my schooling time. So she used to also like after school, she was a teacher. She was also used to take tuitions. So every time I used to feel like I’m alone, you know. I tried to play with the kids that come home for tuitions because they were the only people I had as friends. So that time I felt lonely. But now I know that’s what made me the strongest. So now even for my kids, I know there are a lot of things that they miss because I work. But I feel in the end, it’s going to be in some way they’re going to become. And so now for me, it helps me in such a way. Okay, even when the guilt hits, nothing bad happened to me after that. So what about you guys? Do you think being a working mom’s child is a good or a bad?
Working Moms and Valuable Lessons
Anjum: Okay, I do know how this comes, but I have a slightly different view on that.
My mom has been working ever since I understood life. I’ve seen her doing her 9 to 5, 9 to 9. In fact, she just retired, July 31st. She’s 62, she retired at 62. So I was a child of a working mother. But for me to learn the value of determination, passion, and hard work from her, I think I got it only when I was able to understand those traits. Same. Right? When you’re able to understand…
Bilna: Now when I put myself in their shoes, now I completely understand everything she said at that time.
Anjum: If I was maybe a little younger, I would not have understood. It’s like with my children, my eldest one is 10, and when she sees me as a working mother, she learns from me, she takes it from me. But my younger one who’s 5, for her, going to the office is nothing but having makeup on and…
Bilna: Yes, yes. That’s perspective according to the age, right?
Anjum: So when the time is right, I mean, whenever you feel the time is right, it has to happen. That’s a really good kind of learning for them as well. It builds you.
Bilna: What do you think?
Saniya: So I would say that I have two very beautiful women, my mom and my mother-in-law actually, which is something different usually. But my mom was not a working mom, and even my mother-in-law was not, but I think both of them taught me very nice teachings in my life in that my mom… So my father supported my mom in every aspect. If she wants to do some course, she wants to update herself, she wants to drive. In our family, it usually doesn’t happen, but he gave her all the opportunity to explore, and for that reason, she gave all of those teachings to me. And I think it’s very important to know that she has supported me in everything that I wanted to do, just because my father had that support. And I look up in the same way for my husband to support me, because now I have that comparison. And my mother-in-law, I think it’s the beauty of staying in Dubai, or maybe staying outside a zone where a lot of relatives are not there, or an environment is not there where a lot of people are kicking your heads with different thoughts or something. So I remember while in my pregnancy also, she supported me in tremendous ways. When I tell her that I want to eat something, she makes it. And the whole pregnancy time, everybody used to tell me those horror stories that we usually hear.
This will happen, this will happen, you’ll go through tremendous pain, blah, blah, blah. Don’t go here, don’t sit like that. She used to tell me, just chill, and do not listen to anything. And do whatever you want to do in your life, really. Go wherever you want to roam, do whatever you want to eat. And literally, I listen to her, and trust me, I had the best days of my life in my pregnancy. Even till my ninth month, I was really going hard. So it’s very important to have women supporting women, which we do in our club also. If you are supporting other women, you’ll have a better future. You’ll have a better family, a better happy family. So it’s very important in today’s world.
Bilna: Very true, true.
Homepreneurs Club: Networking and Learning Options
Anjum: You know, Bilna, I’ve heard from many of our club members, or they’re not really members, but they come for the networking meets. They say they’re not able to make it to the meetups or anything, or they don’t want to take up the membership because it requires a commitment of taking up the lessons and everything.
So what would you tell them? Because they are also mothers, right?
Bilna: Yes, yes. On how they can really make use of the club, right? Yes. So in our club, we have done it in two areas. One is the networking element of it, and one is the learning element of it. So we have most of our lessons, webinars, they are online, so that they don’t have to actually come, you know, because again, the travel part is not required. And to make it even better, we have also made sure that the recording is available.
So if somebody joins today, they are going to get like the last two and a half years of lessons to just binge watch at any time. Like the common thing which you always tell, right? It’s like Netflix. You watch, like instead of binge watching the movie, you get to watch those lessons. So those learning elements, even while you’re cooking or packing dishes, lunches for your kids, you know, you can have it playing. Because of those learnings, sometimes we feel like, okay, I don’t need it in my business.
But there are some things like it just strikes, you know, like the one whole lesson, like one whole webinar when you listen, maybe that speaker might have shared like 10 points. But maybe if you implement one of them in your business, maybe only one is relevant to your business. But that might make a huge difference. And that’s how we all take one step at a time. Like maybe sometimes your kid is very small the demand is more and probably you cannot afford a house help or somebody like that. Right. So in such a situation, there are still some things you can do. So in that case, we want you to just spend some time learning and just write them down for the time when your kid is going to go to school. Because that time you’re going to have a better time. So it’s all like whatever situation you are in, make the best of what you have now and then go to the next step.
Now, regarding the networking element, again, we have online networking options and offline networking options. So in person workshops and in-person meetups, we have like every first Wednesday of the month we have in Dubai. And every last Wednesday, we put it in Abu Dhabi. So we just launched in Abu Dhabi as well. So we want to make you comfortable to come out of your comfort zone.
Because I myself have been a stay-at-home mom when my son was small, I had taken a career break for around one and a half years. I remember I used to sit and cry because I didn’t have a network. I didn’t have a car. I couldn’t drive. And there was a time when my son had a lot of speech delays and such issues. So people were telling me you have to take him out to play with other kids. And I was staying in Abu Dhabi at that time and I didn’t have a driving license. I didn’t have any close friends staying nearby. So my husband, he used to be busy with his work.
He used to come home late with some projects. So I used to just walk to the park, taking him in my hand. And I remember literally crying and thinking, I wish I made some family who I could actually meet, you know. But again, I was just persistent going out every day, though I didn’t get any family to mingle with. But I just did that, you know. So it’s all about trying to come out of your comfort zone with what you can. If you cannot come for the meetups now, it’s fine. At least try to join the online networking. Again, for the members, we have a WhatsApp group. At least be active in that WhatsApp group.
And you don’t have to connect with all the 70 members. Even if you can connect with five of them and make them your friends, your life is going to change. So this is what I tell people. Don’t compare with the ones who you feel like they have a maid, they have a house help, they have funds, they have a driving license. If you don’t have it, do what you can at this point. And you’re going to reach that point in a few years’ time, depending on how your life takes.
But only if you take that action now.
The Unspoken Side of Supportive Spouses
Anjum: Because you have a child. I think even our club meetups are very flexible. We have women who come in with their children.
Bilna: We encourage women to come out. Because we just want you to come out and let your kids also see that mom has a life outside this circle. Your mom’s role is not just to feed you, make food for you. Feed, cook, clean. Feed, cook, clean is not just her role.
She also needs a life outside the family and outside the family friend circle. And that’s what we want the women to do. So when I was setting up the club initially, this is what I had. The emotional part which I had in my mind is I am seeing myself in every woman that comes right from the situation which I was in at that time. That was eight years back. Now it’s a completely different situation. I myself see that my life situation has changed. But that’s only because I tried to take that step.
And then at that time to get a driving license, I used to drop my son at one of the places nearby for just a few hours so that I could just go for the driving classes. And it was an effort. But I just did it. And then he started his play school when he was two and a half. At that time I didn’t have the resources to have a maid at home. So we put him in a school and they had extended daycare when I started work. So when I started going back to work. But of course you cannot have it all.
There’s a bit of emotions that comes with it, especially as a mom. I know though we try to stay strong, but there are days we break down and I think we should all normalize those breakdown moments as well. And sometimes even the support from spouse. We want them to support, but they also have their own jobs. They also like like we said, we never talk about the emotional side of men. So when we say like when a woman chooses to stay home, that is also the moment we are giving the financial responsibility to the husband. And probably he is worried. How am I going to pay for the school fees next month, utility bills next month? But we never talk about that side of things. We always say, OK, my husband is not supportive. Probably it’s because he is tensed about a lot of things, which he is not opening up.
Anjum: They also have this thought in their mind that she has given it up for me and my kids.
Bilna: So that’s a guilt for him.
Anjum: Yes, I have to make it up, right? I have to do it and
Bilna: I have to do my best for them.
Anjum: They do that,
Bilna: which they don’t actually tell. So I think when we talk about the supportive spouses, we also for me also personally, when I was quitting my job, that means like it takes time for the business to build. So it’s a decision we took as a family, I told my husband. But if he was not working, it would have become really difficult for me to really start that business, because one person having an income was important for us. So I always feel that, OK, so he’s not the kind of guy who would come and help in the kitchen.
Saniya: Cute. Yes, same.
Bilna: Initially, I used to feel like, OK, he’s not a modern husband. He’s not supporting me like the other husbands used to do. And what I realized was he doesn’t enjoy cooking. Even I don’t. So we came to a point, it was very difficult at some point. And after getting a house help, the issue was sorted. We both don’t enjoy, we both are career people. We love our career or we love our jobs. So we just got someone who was doing it. And after that, life became peaceful. But I think there is an expectation now in society that men should take everything half and half. I mean, that’s what we want.
Anjum: The modern society.
Bilna: That’s what modern society wants us to do. But he is one person who didn’t grow up seeing that.
So for men, also, it takes time to reach there. Because though they are well educated, but they came from a situation where they have always seen moms doing everything at home. So it’s a transition for them as well. But when I see the bigger picture of it, without him, I would never have started my business. And he’s the one who, he doesn’t cheer me every day and tell me like, you’re doing a good job.
Saniya: But he knows you’re doing a good job.
Bilna: He’s not that kind of person who expresses it. But I would say without him, I wouldn’t have done anything that I’ve done over the last two years in our business. So he’s that silent, strong pillar of support on the back end.
Anjum: Silent cheerleader.
From Career to Entrepreneurship: Bilna’s Unexpected Journey
Saniya: I think one question that a lot of people want to ask to Bilna is how did you get into that transition? When did you decide that I want to leave my job and I want to start something of my own? What does it need to get that courage to start two agencies and a club and do it all? So what is your story? We would love to know.
Bilna: I mean, for me, so I was one person who was completely focused on my career. Entrepreneurship was not something I really thought I wanted to get into. I mean, maybe it was there in the subconscious mind, but I never made my express that. So like I took a career break.
Even at that time, I did some side hustles, but that was just to keep myself engaged. But I never had a dream of growing a huge business or anything. And after I got after my career break and got back to work, I was focusing on growing my career. So I wanted to go to the next. So I’m a Civil Engineer like you guys know, right? And I wanted to become a Chartered Surveyor. So I went to a course. I was taking a course to become a Chartered Surveyor.
So the first class I attended was called business planning. The subject was business planning. So they were like, who in the room wants to become an entrepreneur? I mean, I didn’t know why I was like raising my hands from the back seat. So sir asked me, OK, what business do you want to start? I was like, I have no clue what I want to become. But that just came impromptu. I mean, it didn’t come with a plan. But that day when he asked that question, it was a moment that seed was planted.
Saniya: That’s an icebreaker for you.
Bilna: Yeah, that was when I realized, OK, I think I want to do something. But I didn’t know again what. So I just answered him at that time, like, I want to start something that will help other women. That’s the only thing which I said, but I didn’t know what it was. But then a few years down the lane, I was focusing on my career. I was learning about marketing a bit. I used to post a lot on Instagram. More like I was a follower of yours. My husband was a follower of yours. She was very famous.
I used to just blog, you know, like my daily experiences as a mom. So I used to get a lot of followers. And in that, there were a lot of small business women. So I would say they are the ones who were actually inspired because they were asking a lot of questions on how do I grow my Instagram? How do I sell through my Instagram? So I was just randomly putting up the tips on Instagram. Then people were like, why don’t you start a course? Then I was like, OK, maybe I could do something. And it was that.
That’s how we started the Homepreneurs Club. And that was while I was working full time. But then I realized I really want that. You know, like everything was good. I mean, the job which I had was good. So a lot of entrepreneurs I meet now, they say that my work was giving me a lot of pressure. I was stressed. I didn’t want to have a boss. That’s why I started my own. But in my case, I was having the perfect job, I would say. I mean, I didn’t have a lot of stress. I had the perfect team.
They were very supportive and very fun. I mean, we were working, but we had a lot of fun. It was nice in every way. But so it was more because I really wanted to become an entrepreneur. It was not an escape from my day to day. It was more like I wanted to do more. That was what I wanted. And for me, one thing I wanted was like, I am a person who you already know who has that thing for structured business. I want to keep the business structured. So I wanted a place where I could experiment with my own structure, which I may not be able to do in another business. So maybe that’s something. And I was always like I was working as a commercial manager. So I was always seeing the numbers and revenues. So I wanted to help like I’ve seen the smaller businesses. They don’t have the structure. They don’t have that proper way of getting that revenue. So even if it’s a Homepreneurs Club site or even if it’s our marketing agency site, I want to see that numbers grow for other businesses.
And I want to become a reason for it. So probably that’s when we went into both the models that way.
Saniya: I think that’s what our customers love about our agency is that we always talk to them. How much did you earn? Yes. And not like how many. What’s the revenue? And not like how many followers did you gain? What is the engagement? Of course, that’s an important part. But at the end of the day, they’ll be like,
Bilna: You cannot go to a shop and give your followers.
Saniya: Exactly. So we focus on how much revenue did you make at the end of the day? And they love it. Like, you know, when we talk in numbers, which I don’t think a lot of other agencies are able to do. So they feel like, OK, they are focusing on, you know, increasing our revenue. And that’s something that is nice with them. Yeah.
Bilna: That is what I love seeing those numbers. With an AED or USD on the left side of it. Not only AED and USD.
Anjum: She’s very specific.
Bilna: Because that’s the kind of customers we work with. So I see AED and USD on the left side of it. And I kind of like that. Yeah. Because that’s what I’ve been used to doing all my life in my corporate life also. Every month we have the P&Ls and the meetings and that excites me.
From Astronaut Dreams to Construction Realities
Anjum: Engineering. You’re a Civil Engineer, right? I was just curious what made you what inspired you to take up Civil Engineering?
It’s a male-dominated industry to what I know.
Saniya: I would never even think of engineering ever.
Bilna: So to give you a background story, I didn’t always want to become a Civil Engineer. All my life in my school life, I would say, till my grade 10, I always dreamt of becoming an astronaut, actually.
So in the college, not in college, in school, in grade 10, we had a career counselor who came to our school. So they were saying what they asked the students. So I stood up and said, I want to become an astronaut. And one of the guys, he was telling me after so many years when he met, you know what, we used to call you Kalpana Chawla. Because you said that astronaut. But that was so much in me. And then after my grade. So what happened was in grade 10, like until grade five to grade 10,
It was a small school. Like we just had two divisions for each year. But there I used to always be the topper every year. So I used to be like, OK, I’m the topper, you know, always. But what happened in grade 10 was I didn’t become the topper in the final exam. And in fact, I actually think it was a fourth or fifth, something like that. But what had happened was like everybody, teachers and myself, everybody believed that something was wrong with the evaluation. Something had happened because I got the same marks as the student who was sitting just in front of me for three of the subjects where we are actually expecting me to get the highest.
That was one of the times as a student, I felt really low, an embarrassing situation. Because, you know, like if you feel like, you know, why is it I lost it? Everybody’s expecting you to get the highest. People think you would get the topper in Bahrain and all those things. And then suddenly even teachers were upset. They were like, oh, my God, why did this happen?
And so that was a moment I went really down as a student, you know, that age, right, which is 15 years old. Right. And I went to India for my higher studies. And when I went to school, sometimes I was depressed. Then I decided I’m going to enjoy my life. Done. I have done all the studies and stuff now and I didn’t get the results. So why do I have to worry so much? So that’s coming out. So 11th and 12th, I enjoyed it so much like I was not so much into studies. And even in college, luckily, I got into a government college after the entrance. So at that time, when you’re choosing, right? Again, it was like I wanted to go for something like I wanted to go and work in Bahrain. So at that time, what I was thinking was, OK, construction is booming. And that is something always that people like there’s always construction going on. At that time, everybody was opting for electronics or computer science was the toughest one to get at that time. So for me, I was thinking, no, I just want something different.
But it was not so much like I wanted a construction thing. And then I had a lot of people tell me, don’t do it. That was probably what inspired me then.
Anjum: Because you don’t really. In my college, IT will have the most number of girls. Yes. Mechanical will have zero. Civil will have zero. Polymer will have like one or two.
Bilna: So all my relatives were against it, except for my dad and my grandmother. They were both like very strong. They were like, if she wants that, let her go for it. And everyone else in the family were like, so we have a family like everybody. I mean, like we are very close with all our relatives. So everybody and they really mean the good for me. It’s not like a bad thing. So that time everybody is going for computer science and electronics. And why are you going for civil? You know, and they were like, you won’t get a job, you know, this kind of thing. And even after I completed my engineering, everybody were forcing me to go for my masters there in India and go to become a college lecturer.
Right. Because that’s a very Indian way of thinking. You know, or you get a government job in a bank or something like that. But you’re not expected to go and work on the site. Correct. And I was like, no, I’m going to work on the site. I want to experience what the site is like. And so everyone in my friend circle got jobs, even the ones who were doing civil engineering. A lot of them got really placed in really nice places.
But I didn’t. And I mean, I went for a few, but I didn’t get placement also. So it’s not like I didn’t go for it. But inside, I didn’t want to go either. And so once L&T had come for an interview. That is completely civil engineering. And when I didn’t go through, I didn’t get through it. I was actually very depressed, you know, because I because that was the only thing that actually came as a real core of what civil was. And I didn’t get placed. So then I went to a very small place near my home. They were just paying me three thousand rupees.
That was a first salary that wouldn’t even pay for my bus transportation. But I enjoyed those days. I was like on the side, walking the sides, you know, jumping in the mud and everything. But I used to enjoy that. I did that for like six months. And then I came to like I got a job in Bahrain. But my dad was also there. So I went there, worked there for a year, then came to Abu Dhabi. So that’s my whole career involved. But when you come to women in construction, right, I think in the Middle East, it’s a completely different scenario compared to what it is in India.
Anjum: Oh, interesting.
Bilna: Because in India, the sites, when you go, the workers, everybody, they don’t really give you so much respect that way. Probably it’s because it’s very strict here or whatever. But the working atmosphere was completely different. There were very supportive people here. I’ve come across. So both my pregnancies, I was in construction. I have even walked the sites sometimes, you know, with the hard hat. But that’s only because I had really good colleagues and really good support. It was not. I’d never felt it was dangerous. The safety thing, even the safety part. Right. All the HAC regulations here are strict. So everybody follows safety. And so that’s complete.
So if anybody is listening, like if you’re a woman in construction, if you want to have a career here, this is the best place for women to go into construction, I would say. You know, the UAE has that very nice supportive ecosystem.
Maybe not all companies, but at least the A grade companies, if you are going to get into it, just get into that. Go for it, you know, and then you will really enjoy that work.
Saniya: And I think with the Built Market Lab, also, when you tell them about yourself, I have seen clients giving you that much respect. And I think for everything, they’re like, ask Bilna, ask Bilna, ask Bilna. You know, OK, for everything, they want to talk to Bilna because they understand that whoever is marketing them knows what’s going on in the field.
So, yeah, that’s very important. The clients in Built Market Lab are from the construction industry. And they know that I’ve been through that, like I’ve worked on the contracting side, developer side, everything. So that makes that perspective. And whenever a client comes to us for marketing, if they are in the construction, they ask us, what is your unique selling point?
And I tell them I have a very strong marketing team and I come with a very strong construction background. And when I mix them together, it’s the best combination that we can give you. You know, that’s what we do.
The trust comes from the fact that she knows what goes into construction.
Dubai: A Hub of Opportunity and Convenience for Women
Anjum: So how is the construction industry in the Middle East with women? How do they accept it?
Bilna: Like I said, my experience in India was not very good in the sites.
But when I come to construction here, the industry, everything is like perfect. I would say the best option, which I’ve had compared to what I had like you get a lot. So the meetings and all the progress meetings, I have seen a lot of fire and people shouting at each other. But you have a woman in the room, even after shouting, sorry, it was not meant for you. So that’s what I’ve seen. So that respect is always there, that respect for women. So this is always my experience has always been. Now, that being said, there were times because there are not a lot of women, right? And a lot of projects, what happens is there’s a site office, right? So sometimes there’s no toilet for women in some of the site offices because they didn’t expect a woman to be there. So I have had to fight for it a few times. Fight in the sense, I have to actually make my voice heard. We need to have a space for women, even if it’s one person visiting once in a while, but she needs to go to the toilet, right? You can’t tell them to go to the men’s washroom. So these things we have had to fight it out. That was more because they were not aware, like, or probably when they planned it out, they didn’t. So after I spoke about it, they did make a change. You know, it was more because they didn’t have that perspective. So I think those things are changing because more and more women are coming to the sites and working in the sites. But I think if you’re a woman in construction, what you need to do is you have to be expressive. You don’t have to be scared saying that, OK, there’s no washroom. I have to just sit and hold it till evening. No, that doesn’t work. You have to actually tell it’s your requirement and it’s your right. You have to tell people that, OK, I need a washroom on the site. So I think that’s something you have to…
Saniya: I think Dubai in general, it’s the best place for women.
Bilna: Any career, right? Yeah, any career,
Saniya: Any place, even if you’re not working, it’s the best place. And I think now I’m so scared to go to any other country or any other place, even with my child… Because of the convenience here… Yeah, convenience and safety. I think it’s… I come from Delhi.
Anjum: OK, I got it.
Bilna: So that safety factor you feel here, right?
Saniya: It’s the most, you know, not to go to place, but touch wood, I’ve never faced anything bad there also. But coming to Dubai, I think it’s the best place to stay here. So yeah, ‘Habibi, come to Dubai!’ is the perfect statement.
The best tagline here, right? And for every woman, I think that is the reason I could really go ahead. In the same business, if I had started in India, I would have had a lot of people questioning me. A lot of people like, I cannot go out at night. It’s not safe. I’ll have to take someone along. Right now we have our… sometimes we have events up to 10, 10 o’clock, 10.30, 11. I still drive home alone. There’s no… I mean, we don’t even have a second thought, right? Because we know we are taken care of.
Anjum: And they would not also value you, I think. Because you’re a woman.
Bilna: Yes. Yes. Here that thing is not there, right? In India, maybe because you’re a woman, they might not give you that opportunity to do that event. If you’re going to be the conductor.
Saniya: I think India is also evolving. Definitely, because we have been here for a long time. So maybe we are still thinking about that.
But I do visit there and I think it’s evolving. The youth is getting used to it. It’s changing.
Bilna: It’s a very good perspective now. And I think it’s all the internet, all the YouTube and the videos they watch, the celebrities they follow, the shows they see on Netflix. It is changing their perspective. And it also depends on which part of India. There are still parts of India which are still untouched. There are places where it still needs to go better.
But at least in the metropolitan cities and all, it has really changed. So, yeah, I think I hope it evolves more, better.
Anjum: More quickly.
Bilna: Quickly, exactly. It’s a dream for me. End of the day, it’s a dream to go and settle back in your own place if that option works. So it’s just that we just have to wait for some time. I have a few friends who actually went back from here to India.
And I mean, initially it was a struggle, but now they have got used to it. They have started and they’re still running their own business also. So it is not like it’s not doable. And probably there’s one thing with Dubai, the convenience here. It’s very difficult to find it in any other part of the world. This is what I have.
Anjum: Once you’re used to it, you’re used to it.
Bilna: Here, everything you have on the fingertips. I know. Everything,
Saniya: Even a petrol pump.
Bilna: Yeah. And everything. Everything is at…
Anjum: Everything is now, now…
Life Lessons: Embrace Experiences and Mistakes
Bilna: Great. And now coming to the mistakes we might have made in life, right? Any regrets? Do you want to share any mistakes you made and what you learned from it? Is that something like that you want to share?
Anjum: Okay. In life or… I’ve really not been in an office atmosphere for a long time, I think.
It’s only about three years. That’s when I passed out of college. I was there. So I don’t recall any significant mistakes, but I’ve had immense learning from then until now. And one thing I really use it every day is experience first and learn next. You do a task, you fail, you learn. You do a task, you succeed,
Anjum: You learn.
Bilna: Very true. It’s more like don’t stop yourself from doing it because you’re scared of failing.
Anjum: So the traditional way is we learn and then we go and experience. But when you experience and learn, then that learning is different. And you really don’t come up until you hit the rock bottom.
From Engineering & Baking to Digital Marketing: A Journey of Passion and Learning
Bilna: Yes, yes. I think you come from a B.Tech background again. You are an engineer again, right? And now as a community manager for Homepreneurs Club,right?
Saniya: Two engineers.
Anjum: That’s my identity now.
Bilna: So what is the transition like? And has that engineering background helped you in any way inside the club as well?
Anjum: Yeah, it has. I think formal education, I’ll tell you what. My granddad, I call him Abba. He says that formal education is never wasted. Okay. Your passion and your education can be two different things. Yes. Sometimes it overlaps like mine. I’m from IT. I am into digital learning. So the journey is very seamless. But sometimes they’re two different things. But still it works. Like we have Insiya (@insyscraftcorner) in our club. She’s a Chemical Engineer. I think Civil Engineer. She’s a Civil Engineer? Okay, sorry, sorry.
So we have Insiya who’s a Civil Engineer. And now she’s into artistry. And Mashallah, she’s growing very well. We have Anupama (@upcycleletstransform) who’s an Architect. Upcycle, let’s transform. And she’s now, her passion is sustainable living.
Bilna: Exactly. And they’ve saved like about 10,000 plastic bags from going into landfills. Amazing, right?
Saniya: And the products are beautiful.
Bilna: Business with a cause.
Anjum: Correct. So formal education is like a tool in your toolbox.
It really helps your thinking. It structures your thinking, I must say. And it really lays that foundation. That’s what he says. That’s what my granddad says. It lays that foundation for you to follow your passion.
Bilna: Very true, very true.
Anjum: So, yeah, I think it’ll never go to waste. Either it overlaps or it’s different, but either way, it’s a win-win situation.
Bilna: Very true. And Sania, you have, in addition to the formal education, I remember you told me about the entrepreneurship training you had gone through in your college days.
Saniya: Okay, it’s a long story, but I think a lot of people ask me. So after my school got over, my 12th, in India you have like a two-month break, in which I realized, so I went for a MasterChef audition, and I failed because I was not able to do baking. They said, do you bake? I said, no. And they said, okay, sorry. So that hit me, like why can’t I do that?
So I started baking, and I realized that I’m good at it. And slowly, slowly it went like really nice. So I wanted to do a course that comes into baking, and not a Bachelor’s in Business Administration or MBA or something. But my dad was very focused, like no, Hotel management is like, you know, you’re cutting onions, you will do this, you will do that. So he’s like, no, you will go for a Bachelor’s in Business Administration.
I was like, okay, fine. After that, will you allow me to do that? He’s like, yeah. So my routine was like, I used to go in the morning, I used to go to the college. And in the afternoon, when I come back, I used to bake and, you know, give those cakes, complete the orders and everything. After my Bachelor’s was done, and then I said to my dad, okay, now can I do it? He’s like, just do MBA, and then you can maybe do it. So while doing my MBA, I got so many opportunities to get into, you know, some entrepreneurship programs that were offered by the Government of India. And I learned so much from them. And I’m so happy that I was a part of it. So a lot of people, like, you know, ask me, so like, why? Sorry. So like, so I did my MBA, I did my Masters, and I also grew my business into baking. So I think I usually used to be very upset with my dad that, you know, I could have been a better baker. Why did you make me, why did you let me waste my time in Masters? And why did you let me not do baking? Then he used to tell me, now you have an MBA degree, and now you’re an amazing baker also. So you have both of it. And when I came back to, I got married, I came to Dubai, a lot of people asked me, why did you leave baking, you know? We still miss Baked Beauty, where is it? What happened? So it’s not that I didn’t, I don’t want to do it.
I don’t want to continue to do it. But that was a phase in my life that I enjoyed. I loved it, I probably learned a lot from it. And my MBA helped me to market that part of my life. But now we only have one life, right? You want to try the next part of it. Yeah, so I was like, I love digital marketing now. Like I do not want to bake, maybe after.
And probably it’s because you have that entrepreneurship bug in you,
Bilna: Right? Now as a marketer, you get to work on different businesses.
Saniya: Exactly. So I love that I’m able to help small, small businesses market themselves and build them as a brand. So I would love to do baking again when I retire, maybe after 50 years.
Bilna: But now this is what you enjoy.
Saniya: Yeah, I love digital marketing. So I think that’s what I want to do. I want to do everything in my life. Maybe next I’ll be painting something.
Bilna: Very nice. You are already a very creative person.
Empowering Women: Learn, Experiment, and Believe in Yourself
Bilna: Nice. So to wind up the whole session, right? What’s your one last piece of advice to women in general?
Saniya: Anjum first.
Anjum:
I think self-investment and self-learning. You have to keep on learning and it’s an act of self-love.
Bilna: Learning is an act of self-love. Act of self-love.
Anjum: Learning is an act of self-love, yeah.
So that’s when you get that. And it can only happen when you believe in yourself. You believe in your power and your passion and everything. So yeah, that’s what.
Bilna: What do you think?
Saniya: I think I agree with Anjum and also
I would say that do not stop experimenting with yourself. You will fail. You will fail a lot of times, but that’s okay. Try, try, try and do not care about what society thinks.
It’s okay to try and fail but keep doing it. Try to seek help. Do not try to be, you know, somebody who can do everything. And definitely, inshallah, you will do great in your life.
Bilna: Amazing.
Anjum: See, you can have everything, but not at the same time. Not at the same time.
Bilna: Yes, it could be at different times in your life.
Anjum: When the time is right.
Bilna: Exactly.
Saniya: And you also, Bilna?
Bilna: I would also say the same. I agree with what you said.
And what I, one more thing that I want to say is…
If you want to do something, just do it. The perfect days are not going to come. Start with what you can and with what you have and where you are.
Saniya: That’s a beautiful thing.
Anjum: Start small, be consistent, then it will go back. The growth happens then.
Bilna: Thank you so much for being on my show.
Anjum: Thank you so much for inviting us.
Bilna: Thank you. See you again in the next episode of The Bilna Sandeep Show. Thank you.
Anjum’s and Saniya’s Links:
Anjum Arsheen: Instagram, LinkedIn
Saniya Sarguru: Instagram, LinkedIn
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