Hello everyone, welcome back to the Bilna Sandeep show. Today I have a very special guest on the show who probably do not need a lot of introduction. If you have been into an entrepreneur side or an branding or marketing side you have probably heard his name already.
Watch the Video
Part 1
Part 2
Listen to the Podcast
Introduction and Startup Philosophy
Bilna:
Thank you so much for coming on the show Mr. Sajith Ansar.
Sajith:
Thank you for having me on the show, honored to be here.
Bilna:
And I’m so happy you made it today. I know you had to cancel a few appointments and there was a little bit of confusion, but you are here today and I’m glad I’m here looking forward to this conversation. And I’m sure there’s quite a lot of things that we can look at learning from you because I’ve been following your journey through social media and other channels and I’ve heard quite a lot about you.
And I think we never had a chance to meet. I think we met at a few events, but never had a one-on-one conversation. So this is going to be my chance to learn quite a lot from you because we are somebody in the starting first two years of our business.
And I know I’ve heard from a lot of people one of your tagline, you say we are a 21 year old startup. Yeah. So what is behind that?
Like why do you still consider yourself a startup?
Balancing Passion and Experience, ROI in Branding
Sajith:
So we coined that because one we’ve seen a lot of creative agencies as they grow and they get successful. Yes. They tend to slow down or they don’t reinvent.
And I met a lot of creative agencies which are not keeping relevant with the time. Because the market keeps changing. The market keeps changing.
One second is the way clients behave changes. And internally also we have a philosophy where it’s not about how big the client is. It’s how big they can become.
Bilna:
Yes. So it’s important.
Sajith:
So every client should be seen as if it’s your first. And so we want to retain the passion of a startup. So when you’re a startup, there is that energy, everybody’s hands on, you go out of the way.
It’s almost like if it was your first day, how would you treat a client? So that’s soul we want to retain.
Bilna:
And maintain the whole energy, right? What you had right in the beginning. And that is the reason.
Sajith:
And from the 21 year old, it is about the experience. It’s the amount of projects we’ve done, the processes systems. So because you’ve been there for so long, you know what not to do.
You know the experience. So you want to retain that learning. So we’re not just a startup.
So it’s the hybrid model of both that. It’s crazy passion. It’s fun.
But at the same time, it’s super organized. It’s a lot of experience in every segment we get into because it’s 21 years. It’s 2000 brands.
So it’s a mix of both these.
Bilna:
You would have had quite a lot of learnings over this 21 year period, right? So branding is an industry where a lot of visual element is involved, right? For example, like we are into performance marketing side.
So it’s very easy for us to set KPIs saying this is the revenue. It’s a black and white. We achieve it.
We don’t or maybe we achieve 70%, 80% of it. Like a client might come saying our target is 2 million in a month. And we might be able to achieve probably 1.75 out of it. But I’ve heard you mentioned in one of the interviews that in branding also you look at the ROI of it, right? So how do you convince the clients and come to an area where you link it directly to the revenue side of the thing?
Misconceptions in Branding and Client Challenges
Sajith:
So it’s very difficult to quantify it from data and science. But what you can do is quantify it from an objective. So what we’ve seen is if you speak to the client from their language and we understand what is the real reason they’ve come to us and if everything is engineered towards that because most creative agencies start to speak about the creative aspect or they try and put their own prerogatives or objectives into play.
So the moment the client starts to trust that you’ve got their back, then the ROI starts to come in, especially with branding. Yes. Clients who pay for branding are not there just for a good looking logo.
They need a good looking logo for something else.
Bilna:
So it’s got to align with their…
Sajith:
The end of it is attracting more consumers. And that happens when a consumer has 10 options and they choose you. And that happens when a brand can communicate the USP.
So for that to happen, you’ve got to dig in, understand what’s unique about the client. That’s why branding is not a logo exercise. It’s actually a business solution.
Bilna:
A lot of people have that misconception, right? Branding is about creating a logo. So what is that general misconceptions that you have in the industry of branding?
Sajith:
Well, I think at the same time, a lot of people in our industry has helped that. So it’s not only from a client perspective because you hear clients who’ve gone to multiple people and you’ll have creative people who are speaking purely from their own perspective. So they’ll have one style of design.
So if you have a luxury brand or you have a low budget F&B brand, the whole style has to be geared to what the audience has to see.
Bilna:
Towards what they want, right?
Sajith:
So if you start pushing your agenda or you’re giving options for the sake of it or you’re not on time or you’re moody about it or you don’t pick up the call when the client comes, all that creates that aura that creative industry person is somebody you have to control, you have to handle or they’re being subjective and then the relationship starts to deteriorate. So I think in many cases, the myth has been added by a lot of facts.
Bilna:
Okay. So what is one biggest challenge that you have faced with your clients? Like maybe, you know, over the last 21 years, like what has been the toughest kind of clientele or what is that?
Ideal Client Relationships and Saying No to Clients
Sajith:
If I look at it, we, I mean, as an agency and both me personally, we love the challenge of clients who are sharp, clients who expect a lot. Those are things we welcome. I think what we don’t enjoy is when there is no logic behind it.
When you’re doing everything in their interest, you know that the decision they’re taking is going to go wrong. And then there’s a power play. So there are clients who want to prove that they want to make a point and it may be detrimental for their own company, but they say, just do it because I’m asking you to do it.
So when you’re treated as a vendor and when you have the best interest, that is something which we don’t enjoy. If I look back, but clients who know their staff, who expect the right thing, who are talking objectively from a business perspective, we love and we don’t mind.
Bilna:
Who are open to the ideas that you bring to the table.
Sajith:
Even if they’re not, but if they know their business and they’re talking logically, we love that. Or if they have unnatural timelines, but it’s because of a certain situation, we understand it.
Bilna:
Like something is opening.
Sajith:
It’s opening and there is a scenario where they have to get it done because if somebody else has let them down, but there are clients who will, even though there’s no deadline, they will say yesterday, they will put pressure. They will create scenarios where they’re not looking at, they’re taking you for granted. So I guess those are things we don’t enjoy, but we can adapt, we adapt to it.
But then we realize that we love clients, our ideal client are people who there is a mutual respect. You land up becoming a friend. They trust you because you have the best interest and they tell the whole world about you.
That’s an ideal client and who value the other person and don’t take you for granted. That is an ideal scenario. But yes, in a real world, everybody may not be the same.
And which is also the reason we try and ideally we work with the key decision maker. With the branding project, if the CEO is not involved, we’ve seen it tends to go, there is something else at hand. Either the person has got some other agenda or they don’t want you there, or they’re worried about their own job.
So the agenda is not for the company. It’s, it becomes personal. It becomes personal.
Bilna:
So in such situations, have you ever had a situation where you had to say no to a client? Like, no, we can’t take you on board.
Sajith:
For sure. Many times. In fact, we say a lot of no’s.
So, I mean, it’s important also as an agency, because your reputation is important. You don’t say it for these reasons.
Bilna:
Yes.
Sajith:
So there’s a budget aspect or, because there are times when we are also open to adapt our budgets to what the client needs, when it’s a long-term perspective for the client. There is, it looks like this client is going to be with you there for a long time. But there are times when you know that your gut feel says, and that there’s a sum of a whole bunch of reasons.
Yes. That you know that this client is not going to get the best out of your service. Not anything else, not for, not personal like or this.
It’s just that I don’t think as a company, we can do something good. It impacts them. And we will end up doing bad work, which will spoil our reputation.
Bilna:
Yes.
Personal Branding and Service Industry Dynamics
Sajith:
So as you grow, you also got to protect your reputation. Not only as you grow, I think you got to look at your reputation right from day one. Don’t do things which you’re not good at.
Don’t take up stuff or even connect people who you’re not sure of, because your personal brand is so key for a company.
Bilna:
Yes. And now, since you mentioned about the personal branding side, right? How important is, like, how do you think, how important is personal brand for a company?
Like now I know if I look at Ideas Eyes versus Sajith Ansar as a brand, a lot of people know Sajith Ansar, right? So is it really important that the founder has that?
Sajith:
I think it depends from industry to industry. I’ve seen in the service industry, and especially if you decide to stay boutique.
Bilna:
Yes.
Sajith:
Law firms, design companies. So a lot of them, it’s very difficult to remove the, the core philosophy of the main CEO or the founder away from it. So two things happen, either the core philosophy of what is unique about the founder becomes the brand, the same personal brand.
Bilna:
So it’s a reflection.
Sajith:
So if the CEO is somebody who is scientific in nature, and that’s the value he’s giving, and that’s usually the reason how the brand goes from point A to point B. So you look at systems, you look at hiring or training, which repeats that if the founder is somebody who likes to give things on time, then the company gets the same. So you’ll find organized people come into disorganized founders and become disorganized.
So it is infectious. So I guess it’s very difficult to switch. We’ve tried it.
We’ve tried making it a very professional business, pulling the image out. At the end of it, you buy into the fact that, you know, this person’s value is the core of the company. And I guess for service industries, it’s going to be there.
Even when you get multiple partners, it’s how the founding journey goes.
Bilna:
Each partner’s personal brand also then starts.
Efficiency in Time Management and Client Relations
Sajith:
Which also you see when a company is acquired and it’s, it’s got a certain number of values as a merger and acquisition. A lot of the change management is about how do you retain the culture? Suddenly the clients will feel that, you know, things have changed and suddenly it’s become too professional or it’s very cold or too transactional.
Bilna:
So now as myself also, I’m just starting out just two years, but I’ve been focusing a lot on my personal brand as well. And one, I wouldn’t say it’s a negative aspect, but one challenge that I have found is like, because people know you, all the inquiries that come to you and the client wants to speak to you, right? So how have you evolved?
Like, I know you have a team, you have a bigger team and you’re not, like as an entrepreneur, you have probably eight, maximum 10 or 12 hours in a day, right? So how do you do that?
Sajith:
Like, I guess two things. One is if you break down and there’s an interesting way to look at efficiency, which is you break down your day and you look at two things, which as a CEO, you should do is revenue impacting and revenue generating. Anything else you should be delegating.
So let’s say if I can make a really good PowerPoint, probably better than everybody else in the team, but if it’s not impacting or generating revenue, I shouldn’t be doing it. Or if I can write copy better than somebody else, but that doesn’t. So even if I’m, let’s say, for example, if I’m discussing with you about performance marketing, it’s going to give me business and I’m having a discussion that’s going to impact my revenue.
I should be involved with that. So likewise, when a client comes in, there is one part of it where you blend the business and the creative part, which is a very difficult skill set to replicate. So I tend to look at putting my time there.
Then I play the client internally. So the team presents to me, I give feedback as if the client were giving feedback. So we’re trying to hone your skills on what you’re really good at, which will allow your billing value to go up.
So everything else you remove yourself from and you get people who are better than everybody else. So we’ve got people who are really good at the account direction, who are fantastic with clients. So clients enjoy being with them.
So they don’t miss you. Or there are people now in design who are fantastic at the finesse and the refinement who are far better than me. So then the clients don’t miss them.
So likewise with the other areas, we’ve started now doing social media. So we’ve got experts within that field. So the clients know that, look, I’ve got this person because he’s going to take you from this journey to here.
And in marketing there’s something called primacy and recency. Primacy is the first time you hear and recency is the last experience. And a lot of owners tend to go to the client in the beginning, do all the selling and they disappear.
And then the clients complain, look, I don’t remember you. And the last thing the client remembers is the end of the relationship. So it’s important to be there when you close, after the project is over to go and meet them or personalize something.
Like we also like to personalize our brand into a coffee mug or some kind of a gift. So it’s not just the primacy. And if you just close the deal and you disappear, that becomes transactional.
So it’s important as a CEO to take care of that.
Bilna:
Maintain that relation with the client.
Sajith:
If you’re a booty company, especially, and this is not a formula which works for the larger things, but I think you will find this interesting. We read about say startups and there are books from Silicon Valley. It talks about do things which can’t scale.
Bilna:
Yes.
Sajith:
That when Airbnb, the story goes how the founder, he used to go to all the Apple stores and open the laptops on display would have, so not Airbnb, Pinterest. The screens would be Pinterest. So there’s a going changes.
So people get awareness on it. So people see more of it. So I think if you can do those things, which can’t scale, you also create entry barriers.
So let’s say at 21 years, if you’re still doing personalized stuff, that is so difficult for someone to replicate or take your client away. Yes. Which is called an entry barrier to someone else coming in and saying, I’ll give you a lesser price and take them away.
So at times when a client sees you’re going and making the coffee for them yourself, that adds that value of an entry barrier. Look, it’s a small little thing, or if you know a client is planning to launch in a certain market. The other thing which we do now is effortlessly.
And I guess it’s also because of, and we’ll speak about that in terms of networking, that if you’re looking at connecting your clients, so they can help each other in business, that’s a big value add. And that actually comes naturally, even to the whole team, that when the client is there, and let’s say, for example, they’re planning to launch in Africa, we have another client who we work for in Africa, and they can open the door, we connect them. And it’s important that there is nothing in it for us.
And they’ve got to know it. That is purely because we want to make sure you succeed.
Bilna:
Give that extra value to them as well.
Sajith:
So those are things I feel as an owner, if you can get involved in these small little things, then there’s a big entry barrier.
Bilna:
Yes. Yes. And it’s like you mentioned about the revenue impacting activities and delegating what is not directly impacting.
So there is this whole concept of around working on your business versus working in your business, right? For a founder. And I’m sure you might have evolved right from 21 years back, how much you were involved versus, you know.
So what is the ratio like at that time? And what is the ratio currently?
Working on vs. Working in the Business
Sajith:
In fact, I went through that scenario, I read about it. And I tried doing that also where as a owner, you should be working on. Again, that depends from industry to industry.
For our business, ideally, if you clear your time, where you’re constantly thinking about two things. One is what next? How do you improve processes?
How do you create efficiencies? What are the new markets? How do you expand?
If you’re not thinking on those, if I just simplify this working on working in, if you can get enough time to be able to think about what next for the business and how do you reinvent yourself? How do you stay relevant? These are important since we’re talking about a smaller agency or any business.
And working in, if you look at the key aspects where you’re working in also, which is going to impact the business. And it’s important that you say you give it to someone for sales. If you’re not good at sales, learn to be good at sales.
And I think every owner has to learn sales and learn marketing. And nobody will speak as much passion as you. And there are tools which for example, it’s important to keep training yourself.
And I think how much of a big you are, how many of the years you run, you’ve got to, and there’s a lovely quote by Steve Jobs, which is stay hungry, stay foolish. So what are the new skills that you’ve got to learn? And you’ve got to be learning what’s happening today with AI, what’s happening today with the different trends, what’s happening on social media, what are youngsters doing?
What are the new trends with business? So, and I think as a owner, if you keep staying relevant with that, that’s very critical.
Bilna:
So like what I said, maybe in your case, what is the percentage? How much time do you on the business and how much do you do in the business maybe?
Sajith:
Again, this can’t really put us a formula, but I would look at it as, I’ve also broken down my time in discipline because I enjoy design. So earlier I wasn’t doing, I was getting into everything else. And for us, that’s our core product.
And so within design, I called it down to, it’s the initial part of this is the client, this is their business and this is what is a solution. So I focus on the initial part and the team takes the rest forward. The concept idea comes from the core concept, meeting the client I’m involved with, with the team because your first meeting, we’re actually listening.
It’s case taking, right? It’s in detail understanding. These are aspects which I’m focused on, which is in the business.
Otherwise everything else is on the business and on the business is not, it’s an organic time. It’s every time, you’re on the treadmill, you’re driving the car, every network, every new person you meet, every conference you go for, every book you read, it’s all in the business. So what I think of it is you got to engineer your time to be able to meet people who are smarter than you and look at concepts which are bigger than you.
And that’s the only way you can work on the business. If you just sit and think on it, it’s not going to happen because you already reached your glass ceiling, your comfort zone. So if you’re improving yourself and your thought, that’s the other way of working on.
So there’s no percentage of time. It’s engineering every single thing. I know you’re part of a mastermind with Muneer.
So, and I think it’s important to have a mastermind which pushes you, which asks you who are smarter than you in other areas, which is another way of working on the business. They are held accountable, books, podcasts and try out new stuff. Like if you don’t put your, get your hands dirty with AI, it’s going to, you’re going to be far left far behind.
Bilna:
Like they say, AI is not the challenge, but somebody who uses AI will become a challenge.
Sajith:
Yeah. Right.
The Role of AI in Branding
Bilna:
And now, since we also mentioned about AI, what is your take on what’s coming up in the branding side in terms of AI?
Sajith:
No, I think it’s not even coming up in many places. It’s already there. And I have a lot of my friends and industry thing who are speaking about how bad it is and they’re sitting outside the fence and judging AI.
But if you think from a client’s perspective and if they can get a, what do you call a site which you can put in what you like and is throwing logos at you or you can write your content strategy. So a lot of these creative areas where you can make social templates through this, but it’s not as simple. So it’s about, like you said earlier, it’s how you use it.
So the whole science of using all forms of AI. So even mid-journey, there are people who do it that what pops out at you has got to be tuned in through trial, through error. So AI works when what’s in your mind, you can bring it out exactly the way you want it.
Bilna:
And give it as an input to the AI.
Sajith:
Yeah, so that only happens based on the prompt, both ways. And there are now multiple tools, everything from data crunching. I think the beauty of AI is the efficiency.
So you can actually do 10x with the same number of employees. So efficiency, which comes is the other aspect. And for branding, I think it’s already there.
In many ways, content writers are already finding it difficult. Music, voiceover artists, video when Quora comes out and they open it for the public, it’s going to be a difficult thing for the industry. Yes, Hollywood is having strikes on it, etc.
But it’s going to be tricky. And unless you know how to use it smartly and put into relevance, if you know how to use the data, if you can train language models, and it’s easy to actually train. So we’ve started almost a year back, I’ve got a thread which is trained like me.
So with all my experience poured into one thread, so you can ask any question, answer like me. Like you are answering. So if the team has something, so like that you can create multiple language for the AI.
Bilna:
And from the branding perspective, what are the AI tools that you use in your industry? So it should be an eye opener for a lot of people who are into branding itself.
Sajith:
I think a combination of AI and apps. It’s a mix of both. And you’ve got to push the boundaries.
So internally, both me and the company, we use Midjourney a lot for imagery. And once V6 has come out, you get super realistic, which you can’t tell the difference. It is really an AI or not?
It’s proper, you can’t tell the difference. And that again comes from the prompts. And that comes from practice.
And you will know you’ve hit it when you’ve got a picture in your mind, and that’s popped up the way exactly you wanted it. So you know what to write. So you can decide what kind of a camera lens it’s got to look, how much of a range it has, what kind of lighting is there, what’s the backdrop, how realistic it should be, what the fabric is, if it’s high dynamic range, or it’s a hard rim lighting.
Bilna:
That level of detail in giving the prompt.
Utilizing AI Tools in Design and Creativity
Sajith:
So the prompt has got to be there. So Midjourney is something which we use a lot. And then if you combine Midjourney and Photoshop, again, you can take it.
Now on Photoshop also, you can type in prompts and combine, but it’s still not out there yet.
Bilna:
Firefly is not there yet.
Sajith:
I would say for images, Midjourney is up there. Runway is very good for videos, but again, there are a lot of glitches. So you’ve got to do smaller, lower second ones on there.
When Quora comes out, I mean, we’re all waiting for that. That’s going to do. Now Midjourney is also started where you can, if you generate one image, so if it’s made on Midjourney, you can make the same image, do multiple stuff.
So the character stays. Earlier it was all different characters.
Bilna:
So you can create a character.
Sajith:
And that can do multiple things. So it’s very easy for social, for campaigns, for clients, even to make a comic or a storybook, that starts to become a thing. And you can do different styles, like watercolor or for children, et cetera.
The other one, of course, is ChatGPT. What you can do with ChatGPT and ChatGPT 4 specifically is phenomenal. Google also with Bard, they’re doing a lot of interesting stuff.
Apple is going to be integrating it into it. So you’ve got to stay ahead. I mean, we use these ones a lot and then we run them through a lot of different softwares.
With CapCut, you can do special effects using these images and it’s got templates.
Bilna:
It’s a combination of different tools.
Sajith:
You’ve got to push it to different tools. You can take Midjourney, then put it through Runway to make it animated, then take it through CapCut to do the editing. And this can all be done on the fly, on the phone.
That’s the beauty of it. Sometimes when you are talking to somebody, you could be finishing off.
Bilna:
So I know, like you keep yourself updated. What about your team? Do you train them?
Or do you recommend, is there any courses or something?
Sajith:
I guess with this right now, it’s hands on. It’s about reading. There are so many articles out there which are there.
So I was personally very interested. So I got in very early and I would pass on the teaching to the team. And we played a lot.
Everybody, it’s not just the creative guys. For us, the servicing, the content, everybody is up to date and everybody plays with, we take one thing, we have contests on the images created. We have a lot of fun stuff.
Bilna:
I think I’ve seen a few of your stories that talks about those.
Continuous Learning and Training for Teams
Sajith:
We do a lot of quirky stuff with this. And so even this, I’ve been teaching proms, language patterns with teams. So it’s important that you keep training the people around you.
So for example, my kids are, I would say up to speed with AI right from the beginning. In fact, CapCut and stuff, my son came, he’s 14 to the office to teach them how to use CapCut. My daughter came in to teach the other softwares, even Runway and stuff.
They are updated to even teach the agency. So, and also at the same time, you’ve got to not lose your hand skills. So it’s very easy to go down this rabbit hole.
Bilna:
And then it becomes very difficult to do something manually.
Sajith:
To draw or write or copy becomes, your brain starts. So it’s important to have the discipline to switch even though it’s so easy.
Bilna:
Yeah.
Sajith:
So it’s like taking a pill to lose fat versus going to the gym. It’s important to do, to sort of make sure you do the right way. So at least for me personally, I make sure I love drawing proms.
So I keep sketching that as a form of meditation. So it’s important to switch that even with the kids, it’s important to say, no, no, first you write this before you push it. Or even the art of writing a prompt is also a beautiful writing habit.
And people who write lazy proms get lazy responses from it.
Bilna:
Now that you mentioned about proms, it’s something that I had written down. What is monk and koi fish? What is that?
Sajith:
I mean, there’s no meaning really. So I had gone to Kyoto in Japan long back. Before that I had done Vipassana meditation.
And I found that, I think meditation is the best form of getting to know yourself. And most of us, when you want to change, there is always things from our past, how we’ve been brought up, our circumstance, things we have heard and seen, which become our subconscious, which pull us back or is self sabotage. A lot of these I could clear up through meditation.
And I wanted that as a reminder. And when I went to Kyoto, I mean, the whole Zen philosophy is about doing the same thing without expecting an outcome. And using that to be in the now.
So you see these guys were drawing on the floor there with the stones they’re doing, and there is no outcome. He’s doing that. So that was an interesting symbolism.
So I started drawing a monk and a koi fish. And I had the exact same thing for the last seven years without wanting to perfect it or this. And I would draw and I would blank out.
Bilna:
Okay.
Sajith:
And blank out with all my senses. So I could be in a meeting. I can draw.
I can listen. But it’s just a way of staying in the now. So also, as an outcome, the drawings, yes, started getting in.
And for me, in my mind, the koi fish would come to the monk and ask this really complicated question.
Bilna:
Are you actually thinking yourself as the koi fish there or?
Sajith:
So I think it’s just conversations with myself because I don’t talk so much about it. But in a way, it’s a conversation where usually you have a complicated thought. And if you look at it, it’s a very simple way to look at it.
If you just be in the now.
Bilna:
Okay.
Sajith:
So it’s these. So in fact, I wrote a book, which I’ve just been for self-testing. I’m looking at even, I’ve done a physical copy, me publishing on Amazon, which is every day the monk is there and the koi fish answer the question.
So we’re doing the series of art now. We actually combines this with AI. And there’s a client of mine who’s printing these on these diamond polished blocks.
And it’s art, which you look at it comes you. So they’re coming out with a range is going to be retailing soon, which will have a little story of this in those.
Bilna:
So I was actually reading a feature about you on Gulf News, which talked about the doodling part of you in the meetings. I love doodling as well. So right from college to school days, I used to like sit and doodle during the class times as well.
And I’ve been caught by the teacher and they’re like, why are you like, you’re not listening. But recently only I found out it actually improves your focus.
Sajith:
It does.
Bilna:
Because anything you ask me at that time, I answer and I see the same thing was there in your article. So do you always like doodle while you are in a meeting or?
Sajith:
Yeah, so I also realize now that not so much recently because I’ve found my listening to get even better when I’m fully focused because I get it. Sometimes the client doesn’t feel the eye contact.
Bilna:
Yeah.
Sajith:
So I may be listening.
Bilna:
They’ll be like, you’re not listening.
Sajith:
I’m not listening. So sometimes people can misunderstand that for a lack of interest. So I look in, now I use it in places where I’m comfortable, where they know I’m listening and not for new people.
So I’m completely tuned in.
Bilna:
With a new person, you’re like, OK, I have to look at them. OK, OK. But it is a form of meditation for you when you are doing that.
OK, that’s nice. I also want to ask you about the networking side of business, because I came to know about you mainly through BNI. You are a very active, you used to be a very active member of BNI.
Now, before we even get into the topic of networking, how important is to know the right connections in the industry?
Networking in Business and Entrepreneurship
Sajith:
I mean, almost every industry, the network is so critical for an entrepreneur on multiple fronts. I’ll start with the simplest one with your clients to be resourceful.
Bilna:
Yes.
Sajith:
That you go beyond the call of duty. One of the things when somebody comes to you and you just build and finish, that’s a transactional relationship. Yes.
But if you can help them and they have a trouble with an insurance guy or your travel guy, you want a printer. Yes. Any help, some of your kid’s birthday is there.
So one, having a network where you are the go-to person, you’re seen as a problem solver. You’re the guy. I’ve got it.
Don’t worry. They will come to you for everything. For everything.
So it could be your clients, it could be your friends, your family. I think one to be networked is to know everyone and is to know who’s the right person for the right job. I think that’s one key aspect of networking.
Second is most things are a degree or two of separation clients which you want. And good networking is reducing that degree of separation is constantly meeting enough people. And at the same time, I feel there’s a fine line where balance, that you’re not just networking.
Yes. Where you’re not just going for any event and giving your business card and collecting business cards is not networking. Yes.
So that’s spamming, I feel. And you also not got to be easily available is what I personally feel. OK.
Even within my networks, you shouldn’t be everywhere because you’ve got to have time for yourself, time for your family, time for everything else. But a good network is when you’ve got people for a resource pool. Second, people who are smarter than you, who teach you things, who you can mentor, you can mastermind with.
And then, of course, I think the third aspect is business, not right on top. And that business is a slow burn. People who get on networks and they feel that they’ll be able to close deals are not networkers, they’re hunters.
Bilna:
Yes.
Sajith:
So you’ve got to spend time, I think, building that trust, building the confidence. It’s like an actual marketing thing, right? So if there are 10 people, why you?
Why is the confidence that you’re going to? And if a person feels that they refer you and because of the reference, the third person will call and thank the person who referred. Yes.
That’s good networking, that you’ve got a reputation enough to say that, you know, if I connect him, my client is going to feel happy I connected them. That’s the ideal brand to carry.
Bilna:
Right. It’s like I will never recommend somebody until I trust 100% that they are going to deliver what you’re doing. It’s both ways.
You have to deliver.
Fostering Trust and Personal Branding in Networking
Sajith:
You’ve got to add on your personal branding by the network. Yes. If it’s reducing from it, then there’s not the right network.
So you’ve got to be very, very careful with your personal brand. Once you build it, you’ve got to guard it for life. And a network can grow that.
And I guess the other thing I’ve learned in the network is your integrity matters. You’ve got to show up as you are, not projecting, because it’s a long term, right? You’re not going to meet them for once or twice.
A network becomes a way of life when you have a way of being and your ethics, your integrity is what you walk is what you are. There are no secrets. There are only levels.
So you bring a DNA, which is very pure.
Sajith:
Goodwill I feel, when people trust you and I keep saying this about a brand and a personal brand is what people say about you when you’re not in the room.
Bilna:
Yes.
Sajith:
It could be good or bad, that is your brand. Yes. It’s not what they say in front of you.
So you’ve got to walk the talk that they say the best things about you and also you’ve got to have a set of what are the values you’re projecting. If I’m at a network, what is my personal brand? It stands for, for example, wherever you network, if they remember you and don’t remember branding is also a problem.
Bilna:
Okay, so you have to connect your core with your business.
Sajith:
So core aspect with your business and there’s a set of values around it. So if it’s passion for me, I feel passion, enjoying what I’m doing, a balance of work and life and being very connected with myself or my personal brands, which I feel will come across without me trying and that comes naturally. And then the innovation creativity is what will plug into this and being someone who understands business and people can look for mentoring also helps your core business.
So that’s when your personal brand and your business brand is got to have that overlap, which is very large. Yes. Otherwise, I know people who are very visible, but people don’t remember them for what they’re there for.
Bilna:
They just know Sajith probably, but they don’t know what Sajith does. What does he do? What does he actually do?
Then it doesn’t make sense. Right.
Sajith:
Then you’re wasting a lot of effort.
Bilna:
And your ROI has to be very, very, very clear on what does the same time you can’t be there for the ROI. So it’s counterintuitive. It’s a very thin line between it, right?
Like how do you promote yourself versus how do you become a value to that particular network you’re in? And now like you have been in the business for 21 years. And initially when you started off, how did the first client come?
Was it through a network or was it through some other means?
Serendipitous Beginnings and Niche Discovery
Sajith:
I think serendipity. I was in Dubai. I was working in a company and so I studied product design.
I worked in packaging, nothing related to what I’m doing now. And a friend of mine who’s from India, who knows me, he had moved here and he just randomly called me saying, hi, we should catch up. And everybody knew I got a number from somebody.
I don’t have friends here. We were talking and he mentioned in passing, there’s a radio station launching in Dubai. He’s joined in that company.
And then I said, very good, very good on the stuff. And then he said, no, we met all these big agencies and I’m not quite inspired by their work. I miss the stuff you guys are doing and where I studied.
So without thinking something in me, just spoke up and said, I have an agency. Can I pitch? Okay.
I don’t know what made me say it. He’s okay. So you didn’t actually have an, I didn’t have an agency.
I had no idea about what advertising is or branding is or, so I went and, uh, that is now today’s city FM, city FM was launching. And, uh, I went for the brief. They gave the brief.
I went, bought my computer. I bought a book on advertising and then I went back and I said, how the hell am I going to do it? And I, I, I knew I was very good at bad jokes and puns and stuff.
So I built a campaign on puns and I went back two days later and I won the account. Uh, so I guess spice was born on the back of it.
Bilna:
Now that’s an interesting story. I didn’t find it anywhere. I was researching a lot on it.
And so that is the very first client. And that is that when you decided to officially start as an agency, when you got the project, when we started, no.
Sajith:
In fact, I was asking for advice from people around. Most people were doing advertising from a media perspective because media was big money at that time. Gift and promotion was very big.
So everybody advised me to do a different promotion. Printing production was big doing stickers and t-shirts. So everybody advised me saying to go down that route.
Everybody said, uh, we’re talking Sony, Samsung, uh, the big brands are good. So those are all the advice that I got. So at that time I said, I just start.
And along the way, I started realizing that Dubai was, was blowing up. It was just the beginning, you know, 2002, uh, the whole, the whole bubble was starting. It’s like a volcano, which is sort of okay.
And, uh, around that time, all the MNCs were starting to come into Dubai and over 90% of Dubai are the SMEs. And these are all traders who’ve been there from before, who’ve come in, who were sending it to different places, old manufacturing guys. So it’s made up of, you go to knife road and you go to all these, and that time DIP, et cetera, weren’t there or Jablali people buying, selling the textile market, uh, Mina Bazaar.
These were old school, traditional businesses. And I realized that these are the, this is a large industry, which doesn’t pay for design, who doesn’t understand what the design is. The printer will come for a card.
They’ll tell the printer to make something and that is how it works. And you’re printing some, uh, what do you call a 40 fill card? And in that you get a brand for free.
Bilna:
That was the logo free when you print the card with us.
Sajith:
So in fact, if I had done market research, I shouldn’t have opened it. Right. If you do market research, nobody’s paying for this.
So I decided to go after this market, uh, which nobody wanted because the big agencies, they wanted the MNCs. Uh, and for me, I don’t know if it was good or bad or whatever. I wanted to make a real difference.
And I’d done design and I went to business school. So I went to NID and I went to IM. Uh, I did a one-year program for the MEP.
So I wanted to combine both. Um, and though I’d done product design, so there’s a process. Uh, and now they were talking about this.
So it was creative thinking and can I maybe build in a coaching model to this? And if I can add value to these clients and, and then as we started speaking through our network, there were a lot of second generation of these guys and all of them had sent their kids to UK, US, uh, who were exposed to it, would come back, would try and make a change. The father and son wouldn’t see it.
The dad would think the son is trying to blow up money. And I felt there, if I can become a bridge between them, make sure the son doesn’t blow up money, but he gets value. He grows the business.
He rebrands in the right way, attracts more customers. If I can be that guiding star. So we went down that route where, where we worked with these entrepreneurs, son and father, and we would build for design, but talk about coaching, work with the, the senior management and that started growing.
And we found that’s a niche that we could explore. So we don’t need to go this printing production and, and I didn’t want outstandings. And the moment I realized also we, we did all that.
We also expanded our business into fit out. And I went that route, but when you’re a service industry and let’s say you’re like a, like a McKinsey model for the SMEs. And when you’re doing this very transformational relationship and the moment they start haggling with you on a business card or a t-shirt gone wrong, or your interior nails not happening, you become a vendor.
So at least for us, we realized the relationship would completely change to what is happening with this rejection, not paying for it. So we said, let’s just focus on our core area. And that’s how it was.
So, so we got into this branding route for this market, Okay.
Transitioning from Vendor to Advisor
Bilna:
So more than a vendor, you turned out to be like a coach for those companies, advisor, someone who’s got the best, like a consultant, like a family doctor, you can call for you, they can call you for the kids. Remember the father, everybody’s that’s nice. And did networking help you in reaching those audiences at that time?
For sure.
Sajith:
I think it’s important that with the network, you could educate because you’re meeting them constantly. And it’s a more complicated thing to explain that it’s branding. So you can’t just go and cold call.
So you can’t call and say, do you want a brand? I’ll come and do it.
Bilna:
It doesn’t work.
Sajith:
I can’t drop a flyer. I can’t send mass email. So it’s got case studies.
So, so I’ve realized that networking is where you educate people like they’re going to be your salespeople or spokespeople. I wouldn’t just salespeople, I would say your brand ambassadors. So if I can train enough people as brand ambassadors over a slow period of time, where they understand my values, I can share enough case studies, then they will be speaking about it.
They will automatically become your brand ambassadors. And the best brand ambassadors are people who say, don’t ask me questions, just meet him once or just go to their office once. So that is the ideal way of marketing.
And that works for your network as well as your client, where your client should say, you have to work with him. So I think it’s a combination of both. So yes, my networks have been instrumental in so much in terms of marketing, opening doors to different new clientele.
Bilna:
And how did you come to BNI? Like how did you decide to join a network like BNI? And how was that journey?
Joining BNI and Embracing the Giving Philosophy
Sajith:
Vijay and Anuradha had just moved to Dubai and they were launching BNI and someone had connected and they came to the office in the early days when they were just starting off. And I spoke to them and there was a chapter called Falcon, which met at that time. That was the first chapter in the first chapter in Dubai.
At that time there was a hotel, which is not there anymore under World Trade Center. I had gone there and I found it really fascinating because there was a group of people who were very nervous for us because it was a mixed profile. You’re watching from there.
Bilna:
That time networking was not so much. Nobody knew.
Sajith:
There were I think 12 or 14 people in that room and a lot of them are visitors also. And it seemed really interesting. It was a mixed nationality.
It was very diverse industries. I was sold on the spot and unfortunately I couldn’t afford it then. We were a startup.
Back in that time, I couldn’t afford BNI. I told Vijay that it’s damn, I mean, it’s really good, but at this point I can’t afford it. And I forgot about it.
And then again, I bumped into, I think it was Phil Bedford at one of the networking, another networking which had gone for a training. And he said, there’s a new chapter launching. Why didn’t you just come by?
And it just sort of happened again. And I was always sold on the concept because the core idea of having a group of people and only one from one industry and everyone’s got your back and everybody’s going to be a brand ambassador and understand your business, spend time going deep dive and then speak about you and also become your best friends and hang out together. I think it’s a no brainer.
It’s something you have to do. If you’re starting a business, you’re established, you’re really big at every scale. You’ve got to have that network around you and who are all focused on this thing of giving, which also I’ve loved about this whole thing of BNI.
It is the core concept is to help others and not expect anything back. And that philosophy was, was brilliant.
Bilna:
And that is how you decided to join. And I think when it comes to BNI, you were like one person, like I think the strongest member of the chapter because I saw recently and you had to leave and that is another shock, which all of us had. So would you like to share about that as well?
Commitment to BNI and Launching a New Project
Sajith:
No, I mean, it’s a way of life. I mean, there’s no question at all. I mean, it’s in your blood.
So not only in, in my chapter, the idea was to connect. I’ve helped launch chapters because I believe in the concept. I felt enough people have to see it.
I was involved with, any event which has to be organized. Yes. I put my hand up to volunteer because I believe so much in the concept or I believe, not believe, I believe so much in the concept that it became an integral part of it.
And yes, it helped me personally. Most of my best friends have come out of it. My network has come out.
So it became a way of life. Recently, there’s, there’s an idea, which I’ve been toying with for many years. You come to a point in your life when you want to take a moonshot.
And the definition of a moonshot is it’s got to be exciting one. It’s got to be scary. And has the potential to touch a billion lives.
Yes. And very rarely you come across an idea, which you feel you found your purpose and then you don’t act on is a shame.
Bilna:
Yes.
Sajith:
So when that came in and I’ve been in the back of the scenes doing a lot of groundwork to make this happen, the research, the technology, bringing people together. So when all those aligned, I realized that now I’ve got to zero my focus completely because in the next one, two months, it’s going to really drag me into it. So you’ll be working a lot on that.
So I have been working, I’d be managing my time. But now it’s also about managing IdeaSpice and this because IdeaSpice is my baby. It’s a passion also drives all this.
So I want to clear out my time. That is a core thing. And there’s going to be a lot of travel and very soon once the launch happens, fundraising, global expansion, those are all in my mind.
Now it’s about how it pans out. So it was a tough decision to actually take myself out from any place which is taking away focus. And maybe I also felt that I think I built a personal brand which will run me through a little bit to continue giving business to IdeaSpice because I think that DNA runs is very difficult to eradicate that.
I believe we are top of mind for branding. Yes. And now from our office, we have three people in BNI.
So it’s a way of life. Yes. IdeaSpice as a brand is there.
So it is about a break or about, you know, concentrating to focus on this new project for a while.
Bilna:
Would you like to share more about this new project? What’s coming up?
Sajith:
Sure. So I guess in as vague a way as possible, because it is still under apps and I’ve just sort of I saw the video of Unlimits.ai. Yeah. So it’s called Unlimits.
The name has been revealed since the URL says Unlimits.ai. It of course is in AI. So, you know, in a simple form, it’s basically using AI to unlimit your life. That’s basically in the name itself.
So it’s basically about manifestation. Okay. So it simplifies being able to see your dreams clearly.
So it helps you design your future. Most of us, I mean, I’ve been researching and even with clients with myself, I’ll give another way of looking at it. So I did the trek to Kilimanjaro.
Okay. So you start seeing the mountain in the first day itself, you can see it clearly. And even if you get lost, you can see that mountain is there.
So the goal is that the goal is there and you get lost and you still come through. And usually, and on the last night when you’re trekking, you go from the base when you don’t see the mountain and you start at night and you’re trekking an early morning around six to seven is when you reach the peak. Okay.
And 70% of people are actually turning back just when it’s about you’re about, but they’ve given up, the oxygen level goes away, etc.
Bilna:
Okay.
Sajith:
So for me, that analogy is a very similar to life that in business or anything in life, in education and for kids, if you don’t have a long-term vision and that burning clarity will take you through everything. Yes. If you don’t see that Kilimanjaro, if you get like many of us in business, we start off cashflow issue, this issue, then you forget what you set out for and we get stuck with it.
And most people give up when they are just about, uh, so, and I was studying this concept. I looked at it and I started seeing that things like gym memberships in Jan, it shoots up 80% finish off in Feb, newer resolutions, I think it’s 91%, uh, which people don’t go through, uh, 40% dropouts, uh, us university. So the statistics and again, 90% business failure rates, the startup industry, all these statistics are about failure.
And if you look scientifically, it’s a core idea is not having clarity. Uh, and again, every coach speaks about it, etc. But you know, vision board in the book secret talks about it.
If you just cut out something from a magazine, I know you guys also did that. It doesn’t make it happen unless you emotionally also have played it in your mind, seen it, believed you can, and your subconscious triggers your critical activation. So what I’m working on is something which is almost like a fun Spotify version of doing it in a very fun, easy way in under five minutes, five minutes a day.
No, within five minutes, you can design your full life. And then it uses AI and data science to break it down. And, and work with your subconscious, make it into a film, your own life.
It plays with you.
Bilna:
How do you visualize what you want to be?
Sajith:
So yeah, so it’s a lot of research gone in all the AI learning was for this. So finally when I’ve cracked the whole core concept and I’ve done the language modeling, everything myself. So now it’s getting ready for the world.
It’s getting ready for the launch. Okay. So when can we expect it?
So around the end of May is when the beta is coming in. So a lot of people are registered for the beta beta version. Initially it’s testing with a few people, friends, family.
It’s a core group. Yes. And then June bigger launch in September is the next.
Bilna:
Oh, very nice. I really look forward to see that. And like, so do you every year have set goals and do you have all my life?
Manifestation Journey and Fitness Transformation
Sajith:
In fact, I think everything in my life has been, I’ve lived my life through manifest. That’s where the whole thing started. So in fact, when the book secret came out, there was one chapter about this guy.
There’s a paragraph which talks about this guy called John Ashraf. Okay. In the US he’s in this palatial house with mango orchards and stuff.
And he’s with a son and he’s opening some boxes and his son asked him what’s in this box and he takes out and he sees his vision board. He blows and does it and then shows it to the son. And then John Ashraf starts to cry.
He just breaks down and cries. And I was asking him, no, why are you looking at this? And he realizes that long ago, eight years back, he cut from a magazine, this house, which he stuck on the vision board, and he was staying in that house without realizing it.
And he realized the power of it. So it came on television, there were interviews on this. So I wanted to reach out to this guy, I reached out to John Ashraf, there was a program which they had called one coach.
So I went through my coaching program, worked on myself, a lot of my coaching stuff started from there. And again, Tony Robbins books, I would follow these, my whole weight loss, I lost close to 30 kilos through having clear goals and working it backward. At least for my life, every single thing has been manifested.
Every car I bought has bought on that specific date, every holiday, if I look back at my vision boards, the picture of the hotel I’ve stayed in without realizing has been there. The EQ for my children, what they’re doing, their achievements, the magazines, where her work has been featured, the clients I’ve got, the people I’ve attracted is all I’ve got these pictures, which I have it framed and I brush my teeth, I can see it subconsciously, every day, every day, and I keep changing and updating because as you age, things change in life. So fancy car is not an excitement, I want to change the world.
And I had it long back, there’d be an app, or I do this or I do stuff with my mom can go and make products. A lot of the things we’ve spoken about, I would probably have manifested and that’s where the quest began. So if it’s working, and there are people I’ve spoken to, like you speak to sports people who visualize the sport the day before.
And that’s the secret that mind coaches teach them, or film actors who’ve written a check and how come it’s not out there. Everybody knows about it. It is a buzzword.
It is the fastest growing buzzword currently also 15,000% growth on Google, the word manifestation is 5 billion views on TikTok. So why is everybody’s working on products that are very tacky, cranky, or it looks like a very spiritual thing. It’s not made to be scientific at the same time fun.
Yeah, so that’s the beauty of manifestation.
Bilna:
Very nice. And you also mentioned about your fitness journey, right? And that manifestation even played a role in that I’m sure the fitness journey would have also brought in a lot of other changes in terms of discipline as a life.
So would you like to share more about that journey as well?
Holistic Approach to Wellness and Future Aspirations
Sajith:
So I guess fitness was a fantastic analogy for being able to put your mind to whatever you want to achieve. Like for example, when I spoke earlier about manifestation or anything you decide, one, you’ve got to have the discipline, you’ve got to change a bunch of things. And there is a whole bunch of programming which we have from the past, how our parents have eaten or what we have seen or people making fun of you and why you’re the same.
We have friends who also ask you that what’s the use of living if you can’t eat or do stuff and who goes to exercise and this and all that stuff. So when I looked at this whole aspect of fitness, one of course, it is a big wake up call that I remember I was 30 years old at that time and I had this back problem and I had gone to Pondicherry. And there’s a friend of mine, his dad does this Cairo thing with the hands, he’s in the ashram.
And I was there with a bunch of my friends came and we went for a walk into a school and there was a hockey game going. One side had kids, other side had all these men who didn’t have their shirts on, no shoes and they were playing full speed against these kids and all of them are 70. So these ripped muscles running fast and it was like one like a film kind of scenario and I was there 30 there for my back and I’m looking around there’s a track and field happening and this again 70 year old lady was a coach taking the kids for a run.
So that whole Auroville place is probably is blessed but everybody was so fit and cycling and that was one wake up call saying you’ve got to change a lot of stuff. So I looked at I think everybody in my family probably has cholesterol and overweight and not in the fitness or sleep habits. So I said let me pre-program all that and just start by myself whatever it takes and take it chunk size and the same signs of manifestation where do I want to be one year, two years, three years and this doesn’t change if you don’t have a big wife.
So if I say I just want to become thin to wear my wedding suit the day you stop or I want to run something or if you have a short-term event you tend to put weight back on or if I say I’m on a crash diet I’ve done that once the diet is over you go back. So it’s got to be a way of being. So for me my why is I wanted to dance at my grandkids wedding.
So I wanted to be there and the symbolism of it is when my kids are grown I don’t want to be a burden lying around when somebody has to look after me or so I want to be the healthy guy who’s out there who’s running around and actually possibly dance at my grandkids wedding as the fittest dancer or the coolest dancer. So it was a way of life has to change if your why has to be to that and then it starts to spin your confidence, your clothes change, how people perceive you and then you start to see that you’re eating healthy at home every day. Now my wife is also doing the same thing.
Kids are eating healthy. It’s not like I am on a diet that is how we eat.
Impact of Health Transformation and Entrepreneurial Confidence
Bilna:
Now it has impacted the people around you as well. They also became healthy.
Sajith:
And more and more friends of yours and earlier say for example your friends would make fun then I would eat and go to their house. So after a point they make salad for you. So I guess it’s just about making sure that you know what you’re doing it for.
You don’t want to impress. I want to dance at my grandkids wedding. So you’re just waiting for that.
Bilna:
So you have the right reason. Now you also mentioned about the way people perceive you once you have achieved that. It’s not even about the achievement probably somebody new is seeing you who’s never seen you before you lost the 30 kg.
So there’s a perception around people right. So how important is a good looks as an entrepreneur like when you walk in the room.
Sajith:
Without sounding not from a body shaving aspect but I guess your energy and your aura changes. Yes. That is a key this thing of course you can pull that off.
Yes. I mean without losing weight you can but there is something about your the amount of energy which you have. Confidence it is the your lethargy goes away.
Yes. Your alertness comes up. You become a very energetic person.
So when you are I mean even if even if I was overweight if I’m in the treadmill there’s a dopamine kick in which happens if you’re doing a little bit of weight you’re building your core your posture changes. So when you walk into a room for the first time there is at the end of it your lot of your communication without speaking. Yes.
It’s that aura energy around you. So I think it’s more of that which I also feel can be achieved there. So you could be overweight but if you’re physically active.
Yes. If you’re playing a sport. If you’re meditating.
If you have the right energy around you. So that that comes across and it’s not even about looks it’s I think it’s about what you say how you say how you measure your words etc.
Bilna:
Yes. And I’m I’m thinking like maybe once you have lost the weight and you have and I’ve seen your photos in some of the modelling also you did that as well. And so that also improves your confidence as a person.
Right. And when you walk into a room and you are trying to close a sale probably as a business owner you know that impact also might have come.
Sajith:
So I don’t know why I wouldn’t have perceived that way. So I guess in a way there is also maybe I’m lucky there is a side of me which is probably not perceived my own looks or my confidence or success. And I guess that’s also an advantage of or you have people around you.
I would say your family which keeps you solidly grounded. Yes. And I guess if you have what anything which you achieve and if you feel you have it all then your hunger goes.
Yes. And second you come across with that aura where you are arrogant. Yes.
So I guess I haven’t sensed it. Okay. So the modelling thing happened by chance.
My my client who owns the bespoke thing M2M he convinced me. I wouldn’t have thought of it. It happened by chance.
I don’t know if that has affected my confidence at all. But I would say for sure that I feel a lot more energetic. I feel yes my clothing changed.
Bilna:
Yes. And the whole discipline around your life also. Right.
Sajith:
So and the moment you’re doing things with discipline also you start to clear up time. And when you have a discipline. So for me I wake up at very early at 5 5 15.
I’m out of the house 5 45. I’m on the gym every day in the morning because evening something always comes up. Yes.
And you’re near an office early.
Bilna:
So you finish the first thing in the morning.
Sajith:
So when you’re following a discipline then you start to get time to do a lot of stuff. When people ask why how do you do so many things. I don’t know.
It’s just I guess when you follow discipline it becomes actually easy. It’s counterintuitive.
Bilna:
Yes.
Sajith:
It’s effortless. You know I’m doing the same thing. I’m not changing it.
And then you start to get time for being with the kids or playing PlayStation, reading a book, writing a book, doing this, being in networks, watching films, going grocery shopping.
Bilna:
Yes. You should be able to do all that.
Sajith:
The more organized you get the more you can do these silly things.
Maintaining Discipline and Time Management
Bilna:
Like how does your usual days look like?
Sajith:
So it’s disciplined and fluid. So I don’t work late.
Bilna:
OK.
Sajith:
I mean none of us in the office we don’t encourage people working late. We don’t work in the weekends. But in the day it’s packed.
It’s packed. And along with a lot of fluid time. So there is a lot of design time which is also organized and potent.
So at least my personal feeling was that inspiration shouldn’t come when it comes. You should be able to learn enough to make it come on time. That you should be able to decide that now I’m going to design and at that time I should be able to design.
So I guess that I mean I can sit in the auto read and design.
Bilna:
So you clock in the time for that. Yes.
Sajith:
I know that I’m fixing meetings. Even when I was in BNI I would have Tuesday 11 o’clock and Thursday. So I would have two one to ones and and fix with that and it would be slotted into it.
And usually Tuesday evening I would go for my shave because next day was BNI on Wednesday morning and mornings would be gym and I’d leave the office on this and evening we’d go for a walk sometimes after dinner with my wife or we’d watch Netflix and we know we’re not going to surf. We’ll watch from this time to this time and sleep on time. And weekends are super lazy that it’s nothing.
It’s a nice thing of nothingness and me and my son play PlayStation video calls with my daughter. She’s in Spain now. So it is a combination of meeting clients and we also look at my adding value to the meeting or not.
I’m actually quite fussy about my time. Is this a network which I should go for?
Bilna:
It’s an evening party.
Sajith:
Should I go for that party? If I don’t feel like now I’ve started saying no. I’ve learned to say no without hurting people.
How do you do that? So I guess one is making sure it doesn’t come across as arrogancing. It’s explaining why and and if you don’t want them to call you again to explain that look I’d love to but it’s not my scene or this or I’ll go for something else or if I’m missing a birthday party I’ll send a gift with a handwritten note.
Bilna:
To make sure that you care.
Sajith:
You know that I care.
Bilna:
It’s just that you don’t have the time to be everywhere.
Sajith:
And it’s not fair on myself.
Advice for Aspiring Branding Professionals
Bilna:
Yes, it’s not fair to burn out and not take care of your own health and go be everywhere. Now before we close the session, I would like to know what is one advice probably you want to give to especially those who are into branding side who wants to start a probably a branding agency. What is one advice you would give to them?
Sajith:
I think one of the best things I’ve read there’s a quote by Steve Martin which says be so good that they can’t ignore you. So I guess if you constantly keep improving your skills that it shouldn’t be anything. It should be one.
Your work has got to constantly evolve. You’ve got to be super good. And as a branding or even any creative agency or any service firm, it’s client first.
It’s not about you. And it’s not about pleasing the client. And I think I’ve learned that if you just tell them yes, yes, don’t worry.
At the end of the relationship in the long run, it’s doing what’s right for them. And understanding the objective and being the best at giving it. And for me, I feel that it’s not about following the by the book saying, you know, so many hours, sorry, that making sure the relationship is not transactional, transformational.
So anybody who touches your life should leave learning a little bit or do if it’s a friend, it’s a client, it’s a vendor, you’ve got to have touched their life in some ways, my personal belief. So never transactional, always transformational.
Bilna:
Thank you so much for being on our show today. And I’m sure all the listeners would also have enjoyed and learned quite a lot today in this session. Thank you so much for listening.
Do not forget to subscribe to our channel. Thank you.
Sajith:
Thank you. Thank you so much. You’re welcome.
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